On Social Democratic Capitalism: how do we stave off the regressive resposive policies of capital?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Trotsky, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. Trotsky

    Trotsky Gold Belt

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    Franklin Delano Roosevelt is said to have remarked toward the end of his life that he had "saved capitalism" in eight days. He did this by drastically empowering workers, protecting consumers, and raising taxes and thus reallocating the country burden of revenue onto the upper echelon of the country's earners. In doing so, he ushered in the greatest economy the world had ever known and reformed capitalism's image as being, instead of a brutal and unfair ideology for the exploiter, instead a kind and just system that allowed for economic growth for all while ensuring basic upward mobility for the lowest among us. In an age when communists and socialists were gaining momentum domestically and internationally in the wake of unprecedented gains in living standards in Eastern Europe and the burgeoning prospect of "modernization in one generation" in state-capitalist Russia, the transformation was not a moment too-soon.

    However, what he didn't do is transform or meaningfully confront ownership of resources - of the means and modes of production of wealth. So, after a few decades of "liberal consensus" with the term "liberal" being paradigmatically redefined, the owners of capital came back with a vengeance. While the Republican Party had been compromised to social democracy during the presidency of Dwight D. Eisenhower, actual ideological conservatives, no matter how universally rejected (by both laypeople and Keynes-era economists) their ideology, struck back at the first sign of economic stagnation. During the presidencies of Nixon, Carter, and most of all Reagan they capitalized on reactionary politics and short-term economics to radically redistribute wealth upward and consolidate political consensus around policies that were inarguably against the interests of the average voter. Thus, the current political-economic climate was established, where the interests of capital (that is, the owners of capital) would stave off even the most obvious and common-sense solutions that would threaten their market share - the most obvious being universal healthcare, which had/has taken hold in every other developed country and proven itself to be more effective and cost-effective.

    And economic stagnation has proven itself, through the elections of George W. Bush and Donald J. Dumb, to not be a prequisite. In reality, any source of disagreement is enough for capital to, through reactionary politics, disrupt policy making in its own favor. So, in terms of even promoting pragmatic, let alone populist or progressive, policies, it increasingly seems to be a matter of one-step-forward and two-steps-back. Even with the most modest and modestly pragmatic populist policies of Barack Obama - a capitalist through and through - capital was able to foment enough faux-outrage to elect a complete moron who would then institute policies taking the country and economy many steps back toward Locknerian policy that is against the interest of the American people.


    So, with this forum's most intelligent posters across the spectrum - @Jack V Savage, @TheComebackKid and many more - all ultimately landing on the social democratic spectrum (I think @Greoric is the only semi-serious poster here who advocates for pure capitalism)......what is the way forward that isn't doomed to backslide? Is there a point when meaningful abridging of the market and of private ownership - through compulsory worker organization, nationalization of key industries, fundamental regulation (and, inherently, politicization) of wealth - becomes necessary?

     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  2. Trotsky

    Trotsky Gold Belt

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    Great, really important and informative reading on the subject:

    These days, as austerity sweeps the advanced capitalist world and welfare states lie in tatters, it’s easy to romanticize post–World War II social democracy. The epoch of strong unions, regulated markets, and rising wages seems like a golden age compared to our current era of plutocratic capitalism.

    Yet the sepia tones can distort our vision. The European social-democratic parties were populated with leaders who had reconciled themselves to capitalism and a US-dominated global order. When business mobilized against their reform agenda, they quickly scampered back to safe ground, unable to call in a rank-and-file they’d long since sworn off. Their congenital unwillingness to pursue policies that would threaten “business confidence” ultimately prepared the ground for neoliberalism’s rise.

    Ralph Miliband and Marcel Liebman were keen observers of these dynamics. Writing in 1985, when the Reaganite and Thatcherite projects were still unfinished, the socialist scholars chronicled social democracy’s history of deficiencies for a landmark edition of Socialist Register. Without denigrating the reforms social-democratic parties had been able to win — or downplaying the challenges any left politics faces — the two made the case instead for a “revolutionary reformism.”

    While portions of “Beyond Social Democracy” are unavoidably outdated, their essay, reprinted in full below, is a corrective to blinkered memories of social democracy — and a sketch of the kind of socialist politics we need today......


    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/01/social-democracy-socialism-ralph-miliband
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  3. AndroidRage

    AndroidRage Brown Belt

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  4. DIDM

    DIDM Honk Honk

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    That’s a wall of copy and paste
     
  5. ShinkanPo

    ShinkanPo I'll be the one to pluck that fleur

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    Problem?
     
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  6. AndroidRage

    AndroidRage Brown Belt

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    Do I really need to find and quote his insane rant on demons and such or is this CBK's alt account?
     
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  7. ShinkanPo

    ShinkanPo I'll be the one to pluck that fleur

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    Maybe he is crazy but still intelkigent in a sense.
     
  8. AndroidRage

    AndroidRage Brown Belt

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    I have gone back and forth with him for a while. He really isn't
     
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  9. ShinkanPo

    ShinkanPo I'll be the one to pluck that fleur

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    Hah... so you know his crazy theories about the moon light being cold and potentially harmfull?


    Troskie could trolling us here lol. Trolskie.
     
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  10. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    Can you elaborate in your own words?
     
  11. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    People need to understand that men are men, whether they concentrate power in the form of a corporation or an state the result is the same.

    Market forces cant simply denied through education, they are inherent in our usage of finite resources, the reason why capital gains power isnt any different from how third world dictators amass power, they use their power and influence to twist the game towards their own benefit.

    The solution is a strong democratization of society along with strength and independence of institutions, the USA being such a global superpower while at the same time being in the grip of supercapitalists kinda slows things down as global cooperations becomes harder without checks and balances.
     
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  12. Trotsky

    Trotsky Gold Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. VivaRevolution

    VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt Double Yellow Card

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    This is why I have embraced wave politics. FDR accomplished what he did on a populous wave tsunami.
     
  14. Trotsky

    Trotsky Gold Belt

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    But so did Reagan and Trump. Good policy and policy that benefits the many, does not come by incident: it comes by concerted effort.
     
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  15. Goonerview

    Goonerview Gold Belt

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    Seems like a good topic to discuss, but

    TL:DR
     
  16. Bargey

    Bargey Red Belt

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    If everyone is entitled to above and beyond what the market says they deserve and that price is paid by entrepreneurs and investors, what will then be the incentive to risk all to invest and start businesses?

    I hear Venezuela is nice this time of year. Purchase a one way ticket and live in paradise the rest of your life.
     
  17. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Reagan rode the wave of the oil glut into victory and still GWB had to raise taxes at the end of Reagan's years.

    Trump doesnt counts, because Trump isnt running on an economic platform, he is running on a social one.
     
  18. abiG

    abiG The Last Iconoclast Double Yellow Card

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    Of course he saved capitalism. It was he who signed the Federal Reserve Act. That will be the beginning of the end as far as future historians will be concerned. It was from this point on that an international cartel of banking families took control of out countries cash and credit. This power is so great, that most don't even discuss it, let alone understand this power.
     
  19. xcvbn

    xcvbn Silver Belt

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    Does an FDR even happen without The Great Depression? Do the majority of Americans support extreme policy change before things get dire, or does the situation need to be dire first?

    I don't think there is a way forward that won't be susceptible to regression or a repeat of past events. With that said, the goal shouldn't be to keep it from happening but merely to limit its impact and hasten the recovery process.

    One thing's for sure- as long as there are upper income tax cuts, there isn't even close to a serious effort in fixing the problem.
     
  20. xcvbn

    xcvbn Silver Belt

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    <LikeReally5>
     

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