Elections On Ferguson, Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris Told a Terrible Lie

I don't think they knew exactly what they were doing, I think they honestly believe he was murdered. I guess if one of them is being dishonest I would bet on Harris. Most people form their opinions on an issue early on and stick to it and I think many people bought the "hands up, don't shoot" narrative despite it ultimately being disproved.

I think framing Brown as the victim is wrong both factually and tactically but like I said, he's part and parcel of the story of Ferguson which ended with a report detailing the systemic racism of that PD so its hard to separate Brown from the modern discourse around racial injustice in policing when his death is what sparked the modern protest movement around that issue.

As far as people focusing on the "lie", that's also on them. Anytime Ferguson is brought up the bootlickers pretend the only DOJ report was the one that vindicated Officer Wilson and avoid like the plague the second report that completely vindicated the concerns of the protestors about systemic racism in the police.
Fair enough.

Now let me ask you - is incompetence or ignorance a valid defense? Seems crazy to me that us plebs in the WR are more informed than such high profile politicians. And yes, that includes Trump as well. Figured I'd throw that in there before the "but Trump" brigade gets pissy.
 
yea, I need to back off this thread. I'm on dubbs.

and there's no point (as we've clearly seen in this thread)

the libs and left keep on deflecting and not addressing the point of this fu*king thread and what the dem candidates did.

Dems never acknowledge anything that makes them look bad. They just double down on it or deflect to something white men did somewhere.

It’s the party for NPC’s.
 
Dems never acknowledge anything that makes them look bad. They just double down on it or deflect to something white men did somewhere.

It’s the party for NPC’s.

what is unfortunate is that this is clear as day. the top Dem candidates inaccurately, and offensively labeled the actions of Officer Wilson as "murder" or "murdered."

I mean, what in the fu*k. this is wrong. very wrong. all dems should condemn this bull$hit rhetoric.
 
Fair enough.

Now let me ask you - is incompetence or ignorance a valid defense? Seems crazy to me that us plebs in the WR are more informed than such high profile politicians. And yes, that includes Trump as well. Figured I'd throw that in there before the "but Trump" brigade gets pissy.
No its not and ultimately I feel that at least one of these candidates would still speak this way about Brown's death even if they were well informed about the contents of the 1st DOJ report on Ferguson because of its utility during election season. Its standard politics but that doesn't mean we have to like it and shouldn't call them out.

But I think ITT as elsewhere there's disproportionate attention to this one detail and a deliberate effort to avoid the wider context of systemic racism in policing and how that informed the reaction of the community and the wider protest movement.
 
How is it a derail when it's literally in the tweet being talked about?
Right wingers always want to have these complicated discussions in the most narrow, shallow way possible just so that it neatly fits the story they have decided to stick with. You don't get to frame the conversation and cherrypick what is and what isn't relevant to the conversation.

How do you solely focus on the word "murder" in the tweet, and just ignore the rest of the words, and the context of the entire tweet? It's a meaningless conversation if you're just going to ignore ALL the facts of the case. (And by all, I mean the facts that you don't like) The Brown case didn't happen in a vacuum. And these tweets weren't just about Brown.
It's almost as though I didn't already explain my position on that ITT.
If you look you may even be able to find it.
 
what is unfortunate is that this is clear as day. the top Dem candidates inaccurately, and offensively labeled the actions of Officer Wilson as "murder" or "murdered."

I mean, what in the fu*k. this is wrong. very wrong. all dems should condemn this bull$hit rhetoric.
If we leftists condemn it(as I have more than once ITT) can we finally get past this detail and actually talk about the reality of systemic racism in policing as evidenced by the case of the FPD? Or nah?
 
If we leftists condemn it(as I have more than once ITT) can we finally get past this detail and actually talk about the reality of systemic racism in policing as evidenced by the case of the FPD? Or nah?

That's what I've been saying ffs.

let's have you guys acknowledge that the dem candidates fu*ked up here, and then we'll talk about the department.
 
You know what else was backed up by an investigation? The systemic racism of the Ferguson Police Department.

What investigation, by whom, and what evidence was there of “systemic racism”?

There is no such thing as systemic racism in America. It is an empty buzzword, without definition, peddled by the dishonest and regurgitated by the stupid.
 
That's what I've been saying ffs.

let's have you guys acknowledge that the dem candidates fu*ked up here, and then we'll talk about the department.
You mean like I did in the very first post of mine ITT? Or like how @Fawlty did?

Whenever Mike Brown comes up you get triggered hard, not sure why this specific issue seems to enrage you so much.
 
You mean like I did in the very first post of mine ITT? Or like how @Fawlty did?

Whenever Mike Brown comes up you get triggered hard, not sure why this specific issue seems to enrage you so much.
I didn't even argue against the accusation that they "lied" when I don't have enough information to agree that they did in fact lie. They might have just followed along in a media/political bubble and not have gotten the facts. But that wasn't a big enough point or good enough reason to defend their comments. They were just really, really wrong and they should have known better or gotten better info before running their mouths.
 
I didn't even argue against the accusation that they "lied" when I don't have enough information to agree that they did in fact lie. They might have just followed along in a media/political bubble and not have gotten the facts. But that wasn't a big enough point or good enough reason to defend their comments. They were just really, really wrong and they should have known better or gotten better info before running their mouths.
They could've still used the occasion to bring up police violence and systemic racism in a more accurate and less partisan way as some of the other candidates like Booker and Gillibrand did. They were able to mention his death and the discourse that emerged afterwards without implying guilt on the part of Officer Wilson and I say this as someone who is not really a fan of either Booker or Gillibrand, especially not when compared to the likes of Sanders and Warren.

Doing it the way Harris and Warren did hurts the conversation around police accountability because it allows those who would rather avoid the conversation to deflect to the case of Mike Brown as we can see ITT.
 
Or there is option B: Like the vast majority of people, neither of these politicians ever followed the evidence beyond the initial news reports.

Neither you nor I have enough information to conclude that anyone was telling a malicious and intentional lie.

Politicians aren't immune to this social ADD bullshit. In fact, I imagine they tend to lead very busy lives having information shoveled into their brain constantly on a very wide variety of issues, and therefore I would suppose it's more likely that they simply didn't pay attention to the case beyond the initial outcry.

While I can agree that it's inappropriate to speak on the long-resolved issue of Mike Brown's death without being well-informed, I just don't think it's fair to pretend they were serving up intentional and malicious falsehoods.
 
systemic racism

Black guy here. What the hell is systemic racism? Not being a smart ass I really want to know what it is and how it works

No one ever goes into detail about what laws or practices are exactly racist they just say "systemic racism" and the 'structure of white supremacy.' I really want to know because as a black guy, I have been the victim of racism multiple times throughout my life but I never thought it was 'systemic.' And it wasn't just white people being racist towards me for the record.
 
Imagine if trump used an incident of a black man shooting a white man, while the white man was attacking him, as an example of the problem with urban crime seeping out. It would be hysterics.
Imagine if Trump continued to say a group of people were guilty of murder years after they were exonerated as an example of urban crime seeping out. Oh, wait.

Imagine if Trump said it was ok by him to violate the rights of people being arrested and to use excessive force on them. Oh...

We don't have to imagine, do we? And what happened?
 
Michael is not a rosa parks type of character. It is wrong to make it seem like he was some kind of civil rights icon.

At the same time, the Ferguson police department was a shitty organization and changes were needed.
 
Black guy here. What the hell is systemic racism? Not being a smart ass I really want to know what it is and how it works

No one ever goes into detail about what laws or practices are exactly racist they just say "systemic racism" and the 'structure of white supremacy.' I really want to know because as a black guy, I have been the victim of racism multiple times throughout my life but I never thought it was 'systemic.' And it wasn't just white people being racist towards me for the record.
{<redford}
 
This.

If you arent holding your side accountable then fuck off. You don't really care about anything changing. You're just playing politics.

This is a complete and total grenade in the simmering pot of "everything is racism" these clowns are cooking up. It's evil. Intended to divide the people further, cause further violence on both sides. This isn't Trump flapping his gums or twitter. It's a deliberate and evil false re-writing of history. And this isn't an accident or borne of ignorance. Don't be fooled.
 
This is a complete and total grenade in the simmering pot of "everything is racism" these clowns are cooking up. It's evil. Intended to divide the people further, cause further violence on both sides. This isn't Trump flapping his gums or twitter. It's a deliberate and evil false re-writing of history. And this isn't an accident or borne of ignorance. Don't be fooled.
I ain't fooled. I've been calling it out since I started posting here. Consistently.
 
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