ON Casein vs. Muscle Milk, Casein/Whey in Mornings

[Deleted member 87037]

I read FAQ/Protein topics.

I posted my new diet plan a week ago and had ON Whey as my morning shake. No one corrected that; so I assumed it was OK. After further reading I believe I should switch to Casein protein in mornings and leave Whey exclusively for PWO (and mid-day on resting days). Would I be right in making this change?

As for nights, I'm taking 2 scoops of Muscle Milk before bed - should I add an extra 2 scoops for my morning shake (total 4 MM scoops a day), or replace current ON Whey in mornings with ON Casein?

Right now I'm on ON Whey (PWO and mornings <subject to change based on topic response) and Muscle Milk (before bed). What I'm thinking would be right is: ON Casein for mornings, ON Whey for PWO (and mid-day on resting days), and Muscle Milk (before bed). I read the variety is good for the body so the effects of the protein stay most effective.

Please advise. Thanks.

 

[Cooz]

i think what you want as everyday/anytime protein is a protein blend. A variety of slow/fast releasing/absorbing proteins you can take at anytime.

I actually just started looking into this myself. I'm currently looking at true-protein's pre-mix formula's (example: True Protein | High Quality Nutrition and Protein Supplements)

I need to take a look at our own Protein faq and see what's mentioned there and also look through berardi's forums and see what he recommends (i'm pretty sure he's mentioned that you should always have a protein blend).

Looking forward to what some other folks have to say.

 

[David Barr]

Consuming whey immediately upon waking is ideal for recovery, growth, and even fat loss.
We're in a catabolic state from the overnight fast (even if we use slow protein before sleep) and getting a protein pulse not only mitigates but reverses this.

Just be sure to consume more protein an hour or so later.

 

[Ziltoid]

From the DVD's that I have from JB...yes he does mention using a protein blend for the day and whey for PWO.

 

[Cooz]

From the DVD's that I have from JB...yes he does mention using a protein blend for the day and whey for PWO.

Do you remember what product he recommends? (save me some research..some of the folks at my work want me to actually do stuff...it's ridiculous!)

 

[Ziltoid]

Do you remember what product he recommends? (save me some research..some of the folks at my work want me to actually do stuff...it's ridiculous!)

I have to check when I get home...but I did find this article on JB and they show a MM bottle in his article almost half way down so...

Bodybuilding.com - John Berardi - Bedtime Story: What Happens To Your Muscles Overnight!

 

[Deleted member 87037]

Consuming whey immediately upon waking is ideal for recovery, growth, and even fat loss.
We're in a catabolic state from the overnight fast (even if we use slow protein before sleep) and getting a protein pulse not only mitigates but reverses this.

Just be sure to consume more protein an hour or so later.

How immediate is "immediately"? It takes me about 30min from waking up to actually start drinking my protein shake.

Also, eat more protein an hour or so later? I've never read this before. Berardi's plans are based on eating every 2-3 hours (I eat every 3 hours), why an hour later after morning shake?

And you said whey, meaning I should stick with whey protein opposed to having casein protein in the mornings?

And guys, that JB article is about night time.

 

[David Barr]

I'd recommend drinking as soon as you're able in the morning. Protein fasts are murder for athletes and people with high protein intakes.

How immediate is "immediately"? It takes me about 30min from waking up to actually start drinking my protein shake.

Whey isolate is an intermediate speed protein, which means that you'll need to consume more protein an hour to an hour and a half later. If you're interested, I covered this from another angle in my Top 10 PWO Myths article: Top 10 Post Workout Myths

Even better, I covered the dogma/myth of 3-hour eating in my optimal eating article: 21st Century Eating

Also, eat more protein an hour or so later? I've never read this before. Berardi's plans are based on eating every 2-3 hours (I eat every 3 hours), why an hour later after morning shake?

 

[Deleted member 87037]

Whey isolate is an intermediate speed protein, which means that you'll need to consume more protein an hour to an hour and a half later.

Hmm..if I were to do this I'd totally have to re-do my meal plan. If I were to use a blend of Casein/Whey (half scoop of ON Casein/half scoop of ON Whey..or just purchase an already-blended supplement), would this allow me to skip that 'one-hour-later' meal? My thinking is that the slow absorption of the Casein would allow me to do this. Would I have do use a mix for my PWO protein shake, too? Not sure about the fractions of scoops I'd use of each, though.. Thanks a lot for helping, by the way! Awesome to have people with careers in Nutrition on the board

 

[Cooz]

David B.

Are you talking straight up whey for the mornings? no blend, no musclemilk? what about my peri/post blend (60% carbs/30 hydrowhey/10 bcaa's)

i may have to go on a limited supplement budget for a few months and am wondering if I now need 3 types of shakes (blend, whey, peri/post)

 

[David Barr]

likkuid you seem to have a very good grasp of how everything works. Your solution and reasoning are great.

I prefer pre-workout feedings to PWO because of their superior effects, but I'd also use the casein with whey PWO in your situation.

If I were to use a blend of Casein/Whey (half scoop of ON Casein/half scoop of ON Whey..or just purchase an already-blended supplement), would this allow me to skip that 'one-hour-later' meal? My thinking is that the slow absorption of the Casein would allow me to do this. Would I have do use a mix for my PWO protein shake, too?

No worries, just be sure to let us know how it goes!

Thanks a lot for helping, by the way! Awesome to have people with careers in Nutrition on the board

 

[Deleted member 87037]

I prefer pre-workout feedings to PWO because of their superior effects, but I'd also use the casein with whey PWO in your situation.

Ok, I'll add ON 100% Casein to my morning and PWO shakes. LAST question lol! What portion of each should I use for morning and for PWO? Half scoop of Casein w/ half scoop of Whey, or half scoop of Casein w/ full scoop of Whey, or what?

Gotta milk you of your knowledge before you turn into a bitter mod, ahaha!

Thanks so much for the help!

By the way, clever website name haha.

 

[Vedic]

David B.

Are you talking straight up whey for the mornings? no blend, no musclemilk? what about my peri/post blend (60% carbs/30 hydrowhey/10 bcaa's)

i may have to go on a limited supplement budget for a few months and am wondering if I now need 3 types of shakes (blend, whey, peri/post)

If you are limited a blend is fine. I like Pro blend from Optimum, whey is at least half of the protein content. It will be sufficient for all feeding really, without starting to split hairs. here are a few blends I like.


Bodybuilding.com - Optimum Pro Complex - Muscle Building Protein Mix! On sale now!


Bodybuilding.com - Universal Specialized Protein For Lean Mass - Targeted Protein Formula! On sale now!

Bodybuilding.com - ISS Research Micellar Matrix - Bioactive Peptides! On sale now!

Bodybuilding.com - ISS Research ProM3 - Advanced Protein! On sale now!

Bodybuilding.com - Designer Supplements Replenish - Boost Recovery! On sale now!

Bodybuilding.com - BSN Syntha-6 - Lean Muscle! On sale now!

 

[888Shogun888]

i use a scoop of whey and a scoop of MM in my morning shakes.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

Ehh...Im not that big on shakes in general... in the morning especially. PWO ..different story.

Anyway...why not just eat an entire actual meal at breakfast instead of the a portion with a shake?

Meal 1 (Protein + Fats) ~12:00pm - Breakfast
- 2tsp (3000mg) of 'Ascenta' Fish Oil
- 1/2tsp (1.5g) Creatine Monohydrate
- 2 whole eggs
- 1 scoop of ON 100% Whey Gold Standard mixed with:
- 2+ cups spinach
- Flax seed
- 1/2 banana
- Handful of almonds
- 1tbsp 'Adams' organic peanut butter
- 9oz skim milk

I would just replace Whey/Casein with egg whites or some other actual food protein source.

 

[Vedic]

The amount of time it takes to digest etc. The point of whey first thing or a blend, or even whey and some eggs is to fight off the fast of the night. Now, its not the way I do things, but it has merit in all the BB applications etc. I just happen to use IF principles.

 

[Centaur]

i think what you want as everyday/anytime protein is a protein blend. A variety of slow/fast releasing/absorbing proteins you can take at anytime.

I actually just started looking into this myself. I'm currently looking at true-protein's pre-mix formula's (example: True Protein | High Quality Nutrition and Protein Supplements)

I need to take a look at our own Protein faq and see what's mentioned there and also look through berardi's forums and see what he recommends (i'm pretty sure he's mentioned that you should always have a protein blend).

Looking forward to what some other folks have to say.

I'm pretty much the same. I have a 4-6 type (say, Syntha6 or Quatro) blend for breakfast/oats/bedtime plus whey for after heavy workouts. I'm sure there are more advanced set ups, but there's only so much effort you really need to dedicate to protein supplementation.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

The amount of time it takes to digest etc. The point of whey first thing or a blend, or even whey and some eggs is to fight off the fast of the night. Now, its not the way I do things, but it has merit in all the BB applications etc. I just happen to use IF principles.

I dunno...I think theres been a bit too many of these "Whatever you do make sure you don't burn that muscle" mentality floating around from the bb world drilled into everyones heads these days. Seems like a great way to get sales of protein supplements up...but thats another story. I just tend to think the fast at night is a bit blown out of proportion that one would have to resort to something like whey when first waking up or suffer muscle loss.

 

[Deleted member 87037]

i use a scoop of whey and a scoop of MM in my morning shakes.

Sounds good, I guess I'll switch to that!

As for replacing my morning shake with actual food - I don't do this because in the morning there's very few things I can tolerate eating. I don't even like having the eggs but I do that anyways. I leave my lean meats 'till later on in the day.

 

[Monger]

What portion of each should I use for morning and for PWO? Half scoop of Casein w/ half scoop of Whey, or half scoop of Casein w/ full scoop of Whey, or what?

I think you're making this too difficult on yourself. Total daily protein is more important than total protein at one meal. Just make sure you're consuming whey with another protein source. Rather you use 1 scoop or two will depend on what else you