Olympic Taekwondo - Skills

[Oh Mah Gawd]

There are many forms of Kickboxing, TKD and Karate. Which is best? I guess who you learn from, what you intend to do with the skills you learn, and what skills you want to learn is a huge part of that riddle.

Most martial arts practitioners understand Muay Thai by now. TKD and Karate differ on a few things but are similar in concepts. The least understood and most criticized of these traditional martial arts is Olympic TKD.

The rules in Olympic TKD are exactly the same as in boxing but the strikes are done with the feet, not the hands... - so the sport is completely different.

In Olympic TKD you can expect to learn to play a game of kicking. It is a sport where reaction, speed, and explosiveness are developed. It is game of "super rock-paper-scissors" as I like to call it.

Because punches to the head are not allowed and body punches don't often score in Olympic TKD, there are fundamental differences in weight distribution, movements, and philosophy than in boxing or MT. This can both work for you or against you when integrating Olympic TKD with other fighting styles.

Tools from TKD that are commonly used in MMA are --- Linear strikes, Back-kicks, Front-kicks, Round-kicks (linear), Axe-kicks, Side-kicks - Footwork. I have yet to see a pure TKD practitioner in the UFC. Lyoto Machida is the closest thing to a traditional Karate/TKD practioner. Great composure and speedy recovery from executing advanced movements are some of the other skills developed in Olympic TKD.

Over the past 20 years I have trained in Karate, TKD (traditional and olympic), Kickboxing (western and thai), and BJJ. I find useful tools in all of these styles.



My friend Tyler, a true TKD athlete

 

[Greed]

Hey bud, I admire your friend for how hard he trains to be good at TKD. I myself trained in WTF for 5 years. I now practice Muay thai and bjj because I want to compete in MMA and the skills I gained from TKD like timing, flexibility, speed, and the plethora of dynamic kicks give me the edge on a lot of the regular muay thai practitioners.

It is true also when you said that there are no pure TKD strikers in MMA, but truthfully, nobody in MMA relies on one style and that's the beauty of MIXED martial arts. A pure martial art is highly inadequate when facing a well balanced mix of martial arts.

The biggest weakness that I find in people who rely on TKD is not the fact that the technique or the conditioning is lacking, I find that the biggest weakness is the lack of punches both to the body and the head. When it comes to regular people, this generally doesn't matter because a good TKD practitioner can keep good distance using side kicks and foot work, but in highly skilled competitions, this is not the case and when you've never been punched in the head before, it's very surprising.

 

[spid3yo]

Part of it is that in Karate or TKD your stance is much more sideways, as this is easier to defend if you are just fighting for points. In MMA however you need to utilize both hands and legs thus making the "sideways" stance less practical. Squaring up is also better for stopping takedowns.

 

[Greed]

Oh yeah, now that you mention it, that was also one of the bigger problems I had against good boxers. If they slipped past my side kicks and my teeps, I would almost be completely at the mercy of the boxing combinations. I fixed this by squaring up just a little to set up proper boxing and still be able to utilize my side kick and back kicks.

It also stopped my front leg from getting the sh!t kicked out of it.

 

[Oh Mah Gawd]

I haven't done any formal stand up training in a few years. I train in bjj and sometimes train in mma when our fighters prepare for fights. My boxing is mediocre but I have really good kicks. I have not been successful in applying pure Olympic TKD in MMA stand up. However, when fighting MT style I am able to incorporate TKD techniques successfully on a regular basis. (back, front, round kicks, feints and footwork)

I attribute much of my kicking ability, footwork, timing/speed, and explosiveness to Olympic TKD.

 

[hughes fan]

The issue I find with TKD is that once you get inside them it is very easy to dismantle them with knees and elbows and uppercuts. I think that translates into bad technique for MMA.

 

[Oh Mah Gawd]

The issue I find with TKD is that once you get inside them it is very easy to dismantle them with knees and elbows and uppercuts. I think that translates into bad technique for MMA.

Like any pure martial art form not all TKD techniques and approaches work when used in MMA. However, it should be noted that many MMA fighters successfully use TKD techniques in MMA fights. The TKD front kick, back kick, round kick are starting to become used more as the sport of MMA develops. Therefore I think it is wrong to generalize that TKD is "bad technique" for MMA. Pure boxing is bad technique to use in MMA or kickboxing. That is why MMA fighters and kickboxers only take what is useful from boxing into MMA.

 

[Greed]

A lot of the times, I find that when people break my guard, proper use of the thai clinch and the wrestler's clinch (one hand on neck and one on elbow) helps me neutralize the immediate threat of a person inside.

 

[VegaLaw]

I think BJJ experts like Damian Maia would benefit very much from learning TKD kicks. Use sidekicks, tornado kicks, spinning back hook kicks, etc to keep boxers at bay. Most fighters will not want to take him down. And when they get inside the kicks, clinch and go to the ground.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Cung Le is a good example of a TKD guy. Mirko is his last fight used a lot of TKD kicks including the sliding side kick a lot against PAt Barry.

 

[Ranger]

Talk to Joe Rogan

 

[JNick]

Great thread. Every style has its ups and Downs.

 

[Alaskantkdkid]

Great thread. Every style has its ups and Downs.

I'm glad to see a thread on here that isn't 90+% bashing of Taekwondo. It is a nice change from the usual "Taekwondo is garbage, I know I did it for x years as a kid," crap on here.

 

[Guestx]

I'm currently doing ITF TKD. It's okay. I think it could be great, if only the school was better and it was taken more seriously. I like the ITF rules, as it's a lot like kickboxing, but the style is only as good as the teacher, you know.

I've actually considered switching to a WTF school, but truth be told, the sparring rules drive me fucking insane. I'm not big on stop point sparring. I'd rather go out there for 2-minute rounds and just go at it.

But TKD is cool. I like it. The problem is that the ratio of shitty schools to good schools sucks.

BTW, I think that in that second vid, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone punch in a WTF TKD match. Maybe it happens more than I know, but I've never at seen it. At least that guy gave it a shot.

 

[wisemanrax]

WTF sparring doesn't stop if you score a point. Only if you fall do they pause the match.

 

[Greed]

Punching is pretty common among the lesser experienced TKD practitioners or by those who focus a little bit on their punching as a technique.

I say it's generally for beginners because, when people start TKD (or any martial art) and they can't measure distance and range very well, sparring either stays very, very far apart or they generally body clinch where punching to create space ensues.

I don't know if the rule changed but I heard about the consideration for punching being counted as points as long as it was an obviously effective strike to take at that moment. In this case, there might be a little bit more punching in the higher echelons, but it will still be slim to none.

 

[leftlegkicker]

Punching is commonly scored these days in Olympic TKD, more so in the last few years, and more so in the U.S. than in international competition. The referees are being told to look for punches, and athletes are using them to score points. Scoring punches in Olympic TKD are usually single, hard body shots -- flurried combinations will not score. It has to be a hard, solid shot that rocks the chest protector.

Truth be told, punching has always been a scoring technique in Olympic TKD, but it's only in the last few years that judges have actually been scoring them. In years past, you could punch as often and as hard as you wanted, and judged would almost never score them unless they floored the other fighter.

 

[BassAckwards]

i'm not a TKD guy but from what i've seen from the last olympics, TKD guys keep their arms way too low. is this because of the olympic rules?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

i'm not a TKD guy but from what i've seen from the last olympics, TKD guys keep their arms way too low. is this because of the olympic rules?

yes traditionally your hands are kept at your chin

the hands down thing is a bit odd as you still have to worry about a kick flying at your noggin so i cant understand why you would keep them down like that and risk it:icon_neut

 

[leftlegkicker]

i'm not a TKD guy but from what i've seen from the last olympics, TKD guys keep their arms way too low. is this because of the olympic rules?

TKD fighters holding their hands lower than fighters from other combat sports is not something that is specifically taught (the traditional fighting stance has the hands up near the face), but is a practice that has resulted from the confluence of several factors:

1) Ratio of body kicks to head kicks -- Many more body shots are thrown than head shots, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10:1 ratio. Therefore, keeping your hands and arms lower to cover the scoring zones of the chest protector is preferred to keeping them up to protect the face for the occasional head kick.

2) Emphasis on evasion and counterkicking -- Since TKD emphasizes kicking, and especially emphasizes counterkicking, it behooves the TKD fighter to maintain kicking distance when attacked. While blocks are taught and sometimes used, fighters generally prefer to evade and create space for a counterattack rather than stand in the pocket and just block. So when that occasional head kick is thrown, TKD fighters prefer to move and counter rather than counting on their hands to protect them. This is especially true given that head kicks require more commitment, and therefore leave a greater opening for counterattacks. That opening is likely to be lost by not maintaining distance and blocking.

3) Use of arms to create rotation -- Fighters from other combat sports that use kicks generally lower their arms a bit to swing them and create extra rotation and power. TKD fighters are no different. And since TKD fighers are constantly kicking, economy of motion dictates that it benefits TKD fighters to keep their arms lower to aid this movement, rather than constantly switching from a hands-up-by-the-face stance.