Okinawan Karate - The Original MMA



Does Okinawan Karate have matwork? And I thought the Okinawans learned from that Chen Ginpen chinese dude or whatever his name is. If Okinawan Karate just has strikes and throws, then isnt Kung Fu the original MMA? Its sparring rules have strikes and throws.
 
LOL what a joke. As if these katas remotely teach those MMA applications. Ridiculous.
actually, these are pretty basic bunkai. I do not see anything strange about them.
Sure it is nothing that you will see taught in a shotokan dojo, but its pretty standard in naha lineage styles (gojuryu, etc) which traditionally focus on more close-in combat.
 
actually, these are pretty basic bunkai. I do not see anything strange about them.
Sure it is nothing that you will see taught in a shotokan dojo, but its pretty standard in naha lineage styles (gojuryu, etc) which traditionally focus on more close-in combat.

The combination of foot sweeps/trips with strikes is one of the resaons I actually will watch WKF comps occassionally.
 
I also would like to try the knockdown karate styles, especially the ones that include some grappling like ashihara, shidokan, etc. But yes, they are very hard to find.

Other karate styles IMO are not practical. Shotokan and especially all the okinawan styles are useless IMO.
Machida Wonderboy belfort have proven that those other karate styles work in the cage. Also okinawan styles like goju ryu provided the technical basis for kyokushin and its off shoots.
 
As I understand it, part of the reason for the limited grappling in Shotokan was that Gichin didn't want to create competition with Judo which was distinctly Japanese at that point. It doesn't really change what's happening in the present though.
 
That video took away precious minutes from my life.
 
That is very kung fu-esque

As it should be due to the Chinese influence on karate. Throwing is one of the four zones of combat in Chinese kung fu.

heres a good side by side comparison

 
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lol traditional Karate is so robotic. Bruce Lee was against the style. He promoted being fluid. Freeing the body. That is what we see in MMA.

Karate came from kung fu. Kung fu came from something else, and so on. Fighting is fighting.
 
I can see the influence. It seems though that Kung Fu forms are more fluid than the karate forms.
 
As it should be due to the Chinese influence on karate. Throwing is one of the four zones of combat in Chinese kung fu.

heres a good side by side comparison



Wiz Cool C (RIP) would be creaming his pants watching that.
 
I can see the influence. It seems though that Kung Fu forms are more fluid than the karate forms.

There are some Chinese arts that a bit more "jerky" than others, and there are some Okinawan arts that are more fluid than others, but yes, generally you are correct. When Itosu pushed to get karate into schools, I think part of the pedagogy was to break the movements down and pause them regularly for ease of learning. Even people who didn't learn from Itosu eventually took a similar approach, but it isn't usually as prevalent in non-Itosu lineage karate.
 
kung fu isnt more fluid than karate

go view southern chinese styles. the delivery is highly similar to karate understandably since the Okinawans studied in fuzhou








compare to



 
one additional detail in connection with things in karate that got lost in the transition from okinawa to mainland japan. weapons. realise that these were used in oldschool karate.
Techu.jpg

.... then take a second look at a few of those weird looking ineffective hand-strikes.

"Empty hand"... my ***!
 
kung fu isnt more fluid than karate

go view southern chinese styles. the delivery is highly similar to karate understandably since the Okinawans studied in fuzhou







compare to




I think the southern styles were where Karate came from, read that as well. The northern styles of Kung Fu were for taller people who didnt need to cultivate as much strength for their style (because they were already physically taller and stronger naturally). Northern was more fluid and relaxed, made use of long range techniques more (south was shorter range because they were short)

Also those southern forms are for cultivating strength and muscle hardness. They weren't supposed to fight quite like that.
 
I think all martial arts in their war time periods were MMA-like, along with weapons as well. Maybe not as advanced in ground grappling today, but they probably had some form of stand up grappling implemented.
I'm sure they did, it's just Pankration has documentary evidence to support it.
 
I'm no historian on the traditonal arts so nothing I say is meant to bash Karate. To me, this just seems like false advertsing. Karate is karate. TKD is TKD. Are there skills from each one you can use in the cage effectively? Yes. Does that make them MMA? No.

I train in FMA. It is weapons based. We don't advertise it as sport fighting. It is what it is.

This video screams of hey come train with us, we have cool stuff too, instead of what makes Karate, Karate.
 
I'm no historian on the traditonal arts so nothing I say is meant to bash Karate. To me, this just seems like false advertsing. Karate is karate. TKD is TKD. Are there skills from each one you can use in the cage effectively? Yes. Does that make them MMA? No.

I train in FMA. It is weapons based. We don't advertise it as sport fighting. It is what it is.

This video screams of hey come train with us, we have cool stuff too, instead of what makes Karate, Karate.

Yeah I get what you mean.

I think with the advent of MMA - traditional martial arts have had to look at themselves. I don't think they are trying to change what they do - but I think they've dove into the past in attempt to get back to roots & the basis of the art. For example like that video above to rediscover the meaning behind some patterns - as everyone still can't agree on what they are. I think it's commendable that they are looking at full contact fights as a means to understand patterns - no fault on them - that's there interpretation and I think it's somewhat in the right kind of direction. Though I will add better to learn grappling from grappling orientated arts & apply them and mold them to your Karate.

I feel karate has been following this path for the better - trying to get back to roots & rediscover techniques/aspects/grappling elements that once existed but were shed off as the art evolved & developed on mainland Japan.

That said I think Karate should not be MMA. Karate should be Karate. That said I think Karate should take some notes from MMA - i.e. in allowing freeform sparring where grappling is allowed - i.e. less restrictions - make it more realistic - sparring wise.

MMA is not the be all end all. It's a combat sport that most people do within a specific timeframe of there life & then move on from or stop.

TMA's like Karate, BJJ etc etc are not combat sports but lifestyles. They are dedicated to life long practise. I think that's where TMA's really shine.
 
Dutch Style kickboxing and guys with a Karate background do way better in MMA than what the vast majority of people think. There are a lot of MMA guys that say they are doing Muay Thai, but in actuality, it is not authentic Muay Thai but a mixture.
 
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