Okinawan Goju Ryu kicks

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Jimmy Jazz, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Red Belt

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    pretty much like kyokushin kicks, maybe a bit different with less pivot. They seem to plant the leg which works for me when I'm not doing thai kicks. I like the kicking combinations.
     
  2. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

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    It sucks to be the straw man
     
  3. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Red Belt

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    what are you talking about? Mas Oyama was a black belt in goju ryu and took most of the techniques in kyokushin from it. The sparring is also the same.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2016
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  4. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

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    The 'straw man' is typical of martial arts demonstrations, where one martial artist shows the "effectiveness" of a move on a complying victim. Straw men usually throw a slow telegraphed attack and then freeze in place so the instructor can unload whatever they want. This is what happened in the linked video. The straw man/victim just had to stand there and get kicked repeatedly. No pads. No attempt to block or evade. Just stand there and get kicked. Irrespective of technique, leg kicks hurt, especially when you aren't allowed to brace against it or soften the impact by going with it. I felt sorry for this straw man.

    About a year ago, I did a wing chun seminar/workshop because I like to learn new things. We were doing a partner drill where there was a straight teep. I did it really light but still had solid structure behind it. My partner called the instructor over and said that my kicks were strong but I was doing it "wrong". The instructor basically said that I was doing things in a strong coordinated way but that I needed to keep my body upright instead of throwing the shoulders back and the hips forward. He then asked me how my conditioning was. I replied that it was ok. He then kicked me solidly in the leg. I took it sweetly but it hurt. He just stared at me looking for a reaction. He then kicked me again harder. Still hurt but I gave no reaction. He then proceeded to lecture a bunch of the surrounding students by throwing repeated leg kicks into me. I just had to stand there and take it. At some point ( I was pretty dense that day), I realised that he was going to keep upping the ante whilst kicking me until I acknowledged the power in his technique, so I reacted with pain and he stopped. He then showed a "case in point" sort of attitude. So I was the straw man in the demo. I got kicked and hurt repeatedly for the instructors ego.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
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  5. II Muchetto II

    II Muchetto II Orange Belt

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    The guy doing the kicking was out of breath after about 4 kicks, I thought he was going to pass out at the end.

    Demonstrating kicks on someone just standing there, I don't really see the point. Why didn't the guy just hold pads for him? What was the point, he wasn't even countering, the guy just stood there, he was like a full body century BOB
     
  6. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Red Belt

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    Fire of Youth I understand what you are saying but this is pretty common as conditioning in goju ryu and kyokushin. Thats why they are able to take so many strikes in kumite.

    II Muchetto II he didnt get winded until two minutes in and he still performed the technqiues well. He's an older guy. Also you can't perform some of these kicks on pads.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2016
  7. II Muchetto II

    II Muchetto II Orange Belt

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    He might be a older guy but the video was a few minutes long of demonstrating a few controlled kicks and he was showing signs of fatigue pretty early on. It is a little embarrassing considering he is meant to be a black belt worthy of demonstrating the techniques.

    I'm not a fan of techniques just being shown on someone stood there not doing anything, at least show a little application to when you could use them because I couldn't see him being able to use them effectively in a competition situation or a self defence situation, really telegraphed and slow imho.
     
  8. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Red Belt

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    @Azam what do you think?
     
  9. Azam

    Azam Brown Belt

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    I don't think the purpose of the demonstration is to show fighting skill. It's a demonstration of a technique - in this case on a student who is acting as the dummy. It would be no different to a demonstration of a judo throw on a non-resisting uke/opponent to demonstrate a throw. In this case he's demonstrating the kicking applications of Goju on a compliant student.

    The only difference is despite whatever amount of training you have getting kicked in the stomach/legs like in the above demonstration will hurt. I don't think Morio Higaonna was trying to hurt his student - while he is a bit hands on (from what I've seen of footage) - in the video above he clearly tells his student to brace for the techniques he throws. The intention is quite clearly not hurting him but showing technique with some force for demonstration purposes.

    While it does suck to be on the other end (I've had plenty of experience with this & you all have as well) - tbh he's not doing anything disrespectful or out of the norm. That kind of punishment is often what you will get at times in Goju or Kyokushin training - hell even Uechi ryu.



    He was showing fatigue - as has been said he's an older man and no longer the young strong man he once might have been. He's Morio Higaonna though - I mean he's the main head of Okinawan Goju ryu. The whole paradox of martial arts is supposedly meant to be fighting ability & strength but what everyone tends to forget is that outside of a specific time-frame your ability to fight/strength is severely limited. I mean for most people when they get at a certain age they can no longer kick above chest height - some even have issues being able to maintain balance.

    Personally I think if your view of martial arts is just competition, technique or self defence - no amount of martial arts training will help you reach those goals because all are limited by time. Martial arts has got to go beyond those things for long term practice. So in that regard a blackbelt is meant to mean more than just demonstrating techniques etc.

    I'd also say that a blackbelt signifies knowledge/dedication. The greatest fighters/competitors or self defence practitioners quite often don't always make the best instructors.

    As far as his ability to instruct - it is quite renowned that's why Morio Higaonna is very well known. I'd say as far as technique goes nothing wrong with that demonstration - as far as his fitness goes definitely embarrassing unless your his age then not so much.

     
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  10. II Muchetto II

    II Muchetto II Orange Belt

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    You have some good points, maybe I was a little harsh, I just felt a little underwhelmed when I watched the video.

    Because I don't know the guy in the video it gives a pretty honest opinion of what I am watching without having to deal with the consideration of who he is and made to feel I have to be respectful. The video is what it is. Plus I really don't feel his age is too much of an excuse for being so tired from the techniques he was showing in the video. He was still skilled enough to show good control with the techniques so his age didn't make a difference to his ability to carry out the moves, it was purely fitness.

    My view on martial arts isn't just about competition and self defence, but I'm not sure I see the benefit of the drill being shown, I prefer drills that help to improve application of techniques. What's in the video just seems more of a old fashioned out of date drill for conditioning.

    Traditional training is good, but for me it has to have a purpose and not seem pointless.
     
  11. II Muchetto II

    II Muchetto II Orange Belt

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    I just watched it again because it was late the first time I watched it, and it starts off ok, nothing extraordinary though, just basic kicks.

    But at around 1.40 it starts to get silly, and when the partner starts to stumble around and fall over when getting hit lightly to make the demonstraton look better, that's when I have a problem, it starts to make it look a bit unrealistic.

    In today's world we know these techniques just don't get people reacting like this from those types of strikes. There are plenty of karate videos out there with more of a wow factor, I just struggle to see why the TS thought this one was worth posting. It just doesn't seem that impressive imo, no disrespect intended.
     
  12. Azam

    Azam Brown Belt

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    ^^^

    I agree with you - the student was stumbling around but I think that was more out of respect for Morio Higaonna and because he was trying to avoid taking the full brunt of the technique which is understandable.

    I agree it isn't anything impressive just your basic karate video. There are impressive videos of Morio Higaonna though that I've seen - mainly with him conditioning his hands.
     
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  13. II Muchetto II

    II Muchetto II Orange Belt

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    I might try and check some of them out, I've always wondered about hand conditioning, you see a lot of fighters these days with fragile hands.
    I try to occasionally do some light bag work in just wraps or bare hands to make sure I am making a good fist with straight wrists. I feel if spending all the time punching in 16oz gloves your fist outside of the glove can get pretty sloppy. Some TMA guys seem to have hands like rocks.
     
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  14. Azam

    Azam Brown Belt

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    A great way to start to develop the hands is to do knuckle push ups and I'd also recommend using proper bag mitts on the heavy bag. Till date I've only ever used bag mitts for everything besides sparring - it makes all the difference.

    These are my bag mitts:
    [​IMG]

    I'd also recommend forearm/wrist exercises like wrist curls, forearm roller etc etc. Gradually build up resistance until you can do knuckle push ups on concrete and hit the heavy bag without damaging your knuckles or wrist. A lot of people jump from 0 to 100 and start hitting the heavy bag bare knuckle straight away - your more likely to injure yourself that way - at least that's what I've encountered.


    Morio Higaonna (note he's been doing it for decades and built up to that - imho a bit too far but still to each their own) plus he's doing that in his 70's....:

     
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  15. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Red Belt

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    I was impressed by the kicking combinations. I don't see that often outside of kyokushin and was wondering if thats where they got it from.
     
  16. II Muchetto II

    II Muchetto II Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the info. I might start to try and use bag gloves more. I have built up the ability to go close to full power with bare hands on a few techniques but really have to make sure I'm doing it technically perfect other wise it could end up painful. I do like wearing bigger gloves on the heavy bag tho because the gloves I have are really protective and I like to go 100% on the bag, after we get to rounds 5+ then if the technique starts to get a little sloppy then I know I'm not going to get injured.
    Although that probably doesn't sound great i feel it's really important sometimes to keep the pace high even if you know you are loosing a bit of technique. It's good for fitness. But defo might dig out my bag mitts to help with the conditioning and technique. I do feel that's important too and probably don't do it enough.

    We usually do around 200 press ups a night, but on a matted floor and if I'm honest I always do them on the palms!! Ha ha, I might start doing them on the knuckles and see if I can notice a difference.
     
  17. BudoNoah

    BudoNoah Orange Belt

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    As far as fitness goes, Higaonna Sensei has a heart condition, and actually ruptured his aorta in late 2014. Granted, this video was recorded some years prior, but I would venture to guess that he could very well have had issues with his heart for quite some time, and that can cause shortness of breath, among other problems.
     
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  18. Azam

    Azam Brown Belt

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    I had heard about that - is that the reason he stepped down from the iogkf?
     
  19. BudoNoah

    BudoNoah Orange Belt

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    I'm not really in a good position to say, for certain, as that's outside my style/organization--I just get to hear about things through friends--but I do think that was part of it. I think there were also some interpersonal issues going on.
     
  20. don vieira

    don vieira White Belt

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    The initial video will no show. Can you describe the person Sensei Higaonna was kicking? Was it Terauchi Sensei? Or smaller build Asian guy and they had a mat on the floor?
     

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