Mirada said:
After the 30 seconds, yes.
You've already won you're imaginary judo match (of which he is not a participant) and now you're just wasting time you could spend training.
That's as far as I need to read, cause that's the friggin' truth. Your pin wasn't doing shit, and he was in fact "safe". He was going to escape once you went for something actually dangerous (because it's very rare on an even moderate level for people to tap to "discomfort"). Obviously, since you going for something resulted in him taking your back and choking you out, you are NOT equal. You are a decent Judoka with good pin skills, but he is a superior ground player.
Still, I wouldn't call you a bitch... Unless you were starting from the knees or (worse) some kind of dominant position, and you got to this pin and just refused to move. You were wasting his time and yours, just playing blanket. Yeah, maybe he should have "been working to escape", but if "after several minutes" he was just going to tap so you'd move on to something else, he was in no danger. You weren't accomplishing anything, or he'd have just TAPPED, not talked about tapping. You went for something, he escaped and tapped you. Obviously, you have good pins, why would he waste energy fighting to escape the pin if he was in no danger. You had to make space ot put him in danger, and then he escapes and beats you.
The pin in Judo is a demonstration of control over your opponent, which is viewed as being equal to submitting him, as if you can control an opponent for half a minute, you can kill him in less. Unfortunately, the sport setting has changed the mindset to "if I can hold him down, I win, I don't have to be able to acutally maintain control and finish him". In a one on one setting, if I am attacking you, and you take me down and pin me, you can hold me all day and hope for the police to arrive, but if you can only pin me, you won't win, because eventually we have to get up, and I will continue attempting to kill you. Pinning is a symbolic victory... If you can hurt someone with it, then you could make them tap (it can happen), but you weren't hurting him. You were just hugging him.
I have quite a bit of Judo experience myself, and even in Judo I hated it when folks just held pins... Most Judo schools don't spend nearly enough time on ne waza as it is, and there's guys that won't just get a pin then say "okay, I got him, moving on", they'll sit in it for the duration fo the ground time, leaving you to tap just to move on, or waste your whole ne waza time. Yes, you need experience escaping pins in Judo, and there are limited options open to you, so it IS a legitimate exercise there, but not past 25 seconds, as you're not proving anything now.
In BJJ, SW, or even self defense training, a pin is WORTHLESS if you're incapable of capitalizing on your control of the position. What you are doing is simply stalling, avoiding your friends superior submission game. You established position, held him own... but you wanted to stay there for the next several minutes. Looking at the possible applications of that, let's see:
Self Defense: You are attacked, take your opponent down and immobilize him, planning to hold him there until he wears himself out or falls asleep, or surrenders so he can go mug someone else. Meanwhile, you lie there wide open to his friends, other thugs, getting trampled in a bar fight situation, and if he isn't thrashing around like a moron wearing himself out, you are doing nothing but delaying his attack.
BJJ: You got your points for position, and if he doesn't have any, then you can just hold on for the win. However, since the pin is your only weapon, if you move at all in the course of the match (since you can't simply win with the pin), it's likely he will escape and sub you. Heaven forbid you got the pin at the beginning of the match... All the spectators, judges, and competitors are hoping the suspense kills you.
Sub Wrestling: See BJJ
MMA: You will be stood up, and he wills tart hitting you. Again. And then you will take him down and hold him again. Repeat. Insert yellow cards.
Now, since it seems like I'm chewing you out, and I'm not, I'll give you a f'rinstance:
You ever roll with a guy in ne waza that has a good turtle, and that's all he goes for? You wind up stalemated, because you can't, within the confines of Judo rules, open his turtle or sub him, and at the same time you get no experience defending anything, as he's not going for anything. You ever face "that guy", and just think "Jesus... I should just lie down and invite him to attack me", because it feels like you've wasted what little ne waza time you got?
Also, when I rolled with wrestlers in Judo, and now when I roll with Judoka or wrestlers, I'd let them take dominant position, and look to get out. Obviously, sometimes I couldn't. In those situations, sometimes I'd stop fighting and wait for them to go for something. A lot of times, they wouldn't, because they didn't know anything, or knew I'd get out.
The whole point of pin escapes in BJJ revolves around moving when the guy moves. In Judo, it's on getting certain things going to get out or reverse it. The problem is, if you get a pin locked in, you probably won't escape (otherwise, no one would win by pin). If you can't get out, and there's only a 5 minutes roll going, and the guy is gonna hold it for 5 minutes, then 5 minutes of your class have been wasted. Or at least 4 1/2.
