Official Women's MMA Discussion Thread #12

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If Invicta can bring over Kianzad or Niedzwiedz those would be very good opponents for Evinger.

Imagine if one of the next Invicta events will host the BW and FLW title fights with Evinger and Modafferi, a fan that follows only UFC wouldn't believe it
 
What sucks is that if the stars had aligned properly, it'd be Evinger vs Cyborg for the 135lb belt in Invicta. It'd be perfect, after this last Invicta.
 
Who do you guys think has the best chance to get the next titleshot at strawweight (Invicta)?
 
If Invicta can bring over Kianzad or Niedzwiedz those would be very good opponents for Evinger.

Imagine if one of the next Invicta events will host the BW and FLW title fights with Evinger and Modafferi, a fan that follows only UFC wouldn't believe it

I doubt they can bring Kianzad or Niedzwiedz

Cage Warriors is bigger I'm sure.

Who do you guys think has the best chance to get the next titleshot at strawweight (Invicta)?

Karolina for sure
 
Maybe put Aldana in a title eliminator fight with someone else and have the winner fight Evenger for the title.

That's what I wanted with Aldana vs. Reneau, winner gets Evinger with a title on the line.

Getting Aldana a decent fight could happen if Invicta brings in another fighter but it would be a relative unknown unless Porto decides to go back up in weight. Porto has talked about returning to bantamweight a few times over the past year and a half.

Sarah D'alelio has a fight coming up against Christina Marks. If D'alelio were to win that fight they could probably get D'alelio back into the mix at Invicta. Evinger's fight with D'alelio was a short notice fight on D'alelio's part and she won the first round before Evinger completely took that fight over.

Even D'alelio's loss to Lauren Murphy was a strong showing. A good number of people felt D'alelio won that close split decision.
 
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apparently, joanna has decided to give up on the weight cut...:icon_chee

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she posted a short video on facebook of her buying these treats. she looks very excited! haha! :cool:
 
apparently, joanna has decided to give up on the weight cut...:icon_chee

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she posted a short video on facebook of her buying these treats. she looks very excited! haha! :cool:

Very good. I think I remember she saying she misses peanut butter when she is preparing for a fight.

8)
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Hawaiian born Ilima-Lei Macfarlane will be making her pro debut next year. She is 5-0, 3 finishes, as an amateur at bantamweight. She lives in California.

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Pic. right before her last ammy fight back in November.

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Behind Macfarlane is Chris Stanley, a recent signee to Invicta's flyweight division. Stanley has a big win by spinning wheel kick KO recently. She fought Justine Kish last year, Kish wrecked her.
 
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I agree with pretty much everything Thirdpres says (above). It should also be noted that Karolina looked really gassed at the end of her (3 round) fight with Mizuki. We know that Katja can go 5 rounds and put people away even after wearing Eggink as a backpack for two rounds. So, if we are talking a championship bout (5 rounds), I think the fight will drastically start to favor Kanakanpaa in later rounds. I think Karolina racks up points and wins early rounds...but can`t finish Katja...and then Katja takes over the fight in championship rounds when Karolina tires.

Karolina is a great fighter, but stylistically, I think Kanakanpaa is a tough match-up for her. Still, I want to see this fight (and Mizuki vs. Eggink or Grasso on the same card).

Jarl

P.S. Looks like Joanna is already getting ready for her post-weigh-in pig out. She`ll need to bulk up after the weigh-ins because we know her opponent will walk into the cage a lot heavier than she was at the weigh-ins.
 
Yes Gadelha is huge but Joanna is very strong for her weight even though she looks quite thin and has better cardio (at least from what I've saw in their fights, Joanna looked fresh on the third round and Gadelha looked gassed on the last rounds)
 
Re; Ilima-Lei Macfarlane, here's her fight against Stephanie Houser from early in the year, unfortunately the video quality isn't great but still worthy of a watch imo

[YT]SOpTBS3D0SE[/YT]

Looking forward to seeing her pro debut


^^^^^ Hey Muffin,,, what's with the dubs ?

BYW, I tend to agree with what you're saying about Joanna and Claudia, I ew-watched the Joanna vs Lima fight yesterday

Joanna still, as you said, looking strong fast and sharp at the end of the third

Should be good
 
Grasso not an option? They are both 6-0 and Grasso is 2-0 at Invicta, Karolina 1-0? And while I know this doesnt matter, Karolina lost to Inoue. I have watched that fight in slowmotion and Inoue landed a lot more headstrikes in the third round which should hold more value than Karolinas work to the body imo. Inoue also pushed the action in that round while Karolina was backpedaling a lot. Karolina looked busy with her hands but very few of her punches actually landed.

If you want to ignore rankings Grasso is an option. Gray wasn't top ten and coming off a loss when she fought Grasso. You'd not normally have someone in Grasso's situation take that fight. Even Grasso's fight with Cummins was against someone on a two fight slide. I'd like to see Grasso fight someone who isn't coming off a loss.

Inoue had been the person most looked to for challenge for the Invicta belt so it goes to Karolina Kowalkiewicz.

People are welcome to their opinions about who won the Inoue vs. Kowalkiewicz fight. I don't feel that the judges were wrong in thier decision though. If they had gone for Inoue I wouldn't have been unhappy there either.


In a match up like this I think its safer to lean towards the more grappling based fighter (and the fighter who already has a 5 round fight experience). Based on how well Katja did on the feet against JoJo and Eggins I wouldnt be suprised if we wont see any clear domination on the feet by Karolina. It seems that the constant takedown threat helps Katja a lot with these elite strikers and she also does a good job with her footwork these days and timing to pick her shots and shoots for td`s. I think Katja will have easier task to close the distance against Karolina than against JoJo. Most of the fight is likely going to be clinching against the cage and grappling on the ground.

I tend to go for grapplers in these situation myself. That is why I'm, at first, tempted to go for Kankaanpaa. Yet I've seen Kowalkiewicz do well in her grappling, she is good at getting to her feet, is quick on her feet and her hands, and has a solid clinch game. That is why I don't want to jump to conclusions about Katja Kankaanpaa having an edge - that is tempting.

And as I mentioned clinch fighting is probably going to play a big part in this fight and it is not certain that Kankaanpaa will win it, or get the best offense in, or even get taken down herself.

So far Katja has taken down everyone she has faced, I dont think it will be a much of a problem for her to take Karolina down. I also dont think Karolina has the tools to threat Katja from the bottom like Eggins was able to do, or skills to repeatedly get back to her feet. I dont know how fast pace Karolina is improving her grappling now (its always a some kind of suprise factor with these young talents), but right now I think this match is atleast 60/40 for Katja, maybe even 70/30.

Maybe but that might not be the case. It is guessing that Kankaanpaa is better in all espects of grappling then Kowalkiewicz.

I tend to like the fact that Kankaanpaa has fought tougher competition, for the most part, then Kowalkiewicz. She has a better history of imposing her game on her opponents.

And this last bit is the most important part of that potential fight.

I'm not going to go into a big breakdown of this fight as it is not official to be happening yet.

If I decide to work on it more then I may decide to favor one fighter over the other but until then I'll leave it as a fight that is probably going to be determined by who imposes their game on the other.

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On conditioning.

Kankaanpaa was looking a little tired out, but not as bad, towards the end of the third round with Calderwood as Calderwood's strikes started taking their toll on her.

I'm not as worried about conditioning for Kowalkiewicz as far as striking goes. A grinding fight will tend to favor Kankaanpaa though, assuming Kankaanpaa gets at least even offense going. What I'm concerned with is whether Kowalkiewicz can mount more knees and elbows out of the clinch. I don't think that Kowalkiewicz has a huge advantage, maybe an inch to an inch and a half there but she is far more active and fast - that might help Kankaanpaa get the fight to the ground though.

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Edit to add: Although Kowalkiewicz was tired after her fight with Inoue that was a real fast paced fight for Kowalkiewicz, she threw close to three times as many strikes. That'll tired a person out.

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Re; Ilima-Lei Macfarlane, here's her fight against Stephanie Houser from early in the year, unfortunately the video quality isn't great but still worthy of a watch imo

[YT]SOpTBS3D0SE[/YT]

Looking forward to seeing her pro debut

Agreed on both counts. Worth seeing again.

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Gadelha is changing up her weight cutting so she won't be as tired out this time around, at least that is the plan. She will be taking a more gradual approach to weight cutting then extreme-water weight cut that she has done in the past. It'll be interesting if her change helps her out on the conditioning side of her fighting.
 
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And as I mentioned clinch fighting is probably going to play a big part in this fight and it is not certain that Kankaanpaa will win it, or get the best offense in, or even get taken down herself.

If we both agree the fight would probably include a lot of clinching and fighting especially against the cage then I dont understand the difficulty of admitting Katja should be the rightfull favourite. Pressuring her opponents against the cage and working there for takedowns is her brett and butter after all. The fact that "it might not be the case" and that there are no certainties is not an argument at all, when we were only talking about probabilities and what is likely.

A decent striker with strong takedown ability and ground game >> Great striker with a somewhat average tdd and ground game. Especially when tko/KO threat is (relatively) low in womens SW.

Its not that hard.
 
On conditioning.

Kankaanpaa was looking a little tired out, but not as bad, towards the end of the third round with Calderwood as Calderwood's strikes started taking their toll on her.

Thats interesting because I remember Katja being the one who pushed the action more in that round. Jojo got that last second takedown, though, but it was partly because Katja went for a sub.

Although Kowalkiewicz was tired after her fight with Inoue that was a real fast paced fight for Kowalkiewicz, she threw close to three times as many strikes. That'll tired a person out.

I dont think a cardio would be an issue neither of them. Katjas cardio looked great in that 5 round war with Eggins.
 
If we both agree the fight would probably include a lot of clinching and fighting especially against the cage then I dont understand the difficulty of admitting Katja should be the rightfull favourite. Pressuring her opponents against the cage and working there for takedowns is her brett and butter after all. The fact that "it might not be the case" and that there are no certainties is not an argument at all, when we were only talking about probabilities and what is likely
A decent striker with strong takedown ability and ground game >> Great striker with a somewhat average tdd and ground game. Especially when tko/KO threat is (relatively) low in womens SW.
Its not that hard.

I don't agree that Kankaanpaa will necessarily win the clinch fighting. That is an assumption. I do tend to see Kankaanpaa as having an edge in the clinch but it is not necessarily a dominant edge.

I used the example of Soukupova* earlier, she has an MT background, and Kankaanpaa wasn't able to dominate her in the clinch or the ground fighting, or take her down at will. That was a tough fight.

Even with takedowns and takedown defense I view this a little bit on the side of assumptions. The difference is that I am admitting that this is assumptions while you seems to suggest it is factual.

Kowalkiewicz has knocked down opponents, Soukupova, one that she has in common with Kankaanpaa no less. I previously pointed that fight out.

You might as well assume Kowalkiewicz will knockdown Kankaanpaa if they engage in a striking match for any length of time. (I don't assume a knockdown will happen but I'm pointing out what assumptions can do in these kinds of situations.)

Or that Kowalkiewicz will be able to outwork Kankaanpaa on her feet, keeping the takedown attempts and clinch attempts to a minimum. Or push out of a clinch quickly if one develops.

I'd like to see Invicta bring in some of their other transplants from flyweight to strawweight from Brazil. Either Livia Renata Souza, or Ericka Almeida, to fight Alexa Grasso. Get a good title contender fight for whoever wins Kowalkiewicz vs. Kankaanpaa if that fight happens.

Thats interesting because I remember Katja being the one who pushed the action more in that round. Jojo got that last second takedown, though, but it was partly because Katja went for a sub.

I dont think a cardio would be an issue neither of them. Katjas cardio looked great in that 5 round war with Eggins.

The fight was 1/1 going into the third round. Calderwood won the third round in fairly dominant fashion to win that fight, Kankaanpaa was looking worn out by Calderwood's striking towards the end of that round.

Kankaanpaa was a little worn out by the end of her fight with Eggink but she is tough and was able to come from behind to pull off a big win. Great stuff.

I don't think cardio will impact Kowalkiewicz or Kankaanpaa unless it turns into either a grind of a fight or one of them is able to hurt the other fairly badly with strikes. Getting hit hard can take the energy out of just about anyone.

(Edit. It is still a fair question to raise, and observation to make, about cardio and who might have an advantage. Kankaanpaa has been in more long, decision, fights then Kowalkiewicz.)

I'm not interested in this discussion anymore. In the context of not being interested in doing a complete breakdown of a fight that is not official yet, although fair to think it will happen, and having mentioned it is a quick response, I've covered enough territory to have answered your questions as far as I'm interested.

*Soukupova fought, and lost to, Calderwood in MT. Just trivia.
 
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Has Karolina ever fought for 5 rounds, though? I`m just curious. We know Katja can do it - even a tough, grinding fight. Has Karolina ever been tested in such a manner? (serious question)

I always feel like talking about Soukupova`s fights deserve a big asterisk. They are hard to evaluate. She is a beast; she is freakishly strong. I guess I always think about her fight with Roddish; she just overpowered her in every exchange. I know I shouldn`t say this, so I`ll imply it - but she seems unnaturally strong for a natural AW. Freakish strength helps in grappling exchanges and not as much in stand-and-throw kickboxing types of MMA fights. I just wanted to throw that out there as she is the common opponent for Katja and Karolina.

People are high on Grasso now, but I agree with Thirdpres: she needs a top 10 opponent before she gets a title shot. Mizuki or Eggink are good choices...but I`d like to see them wait and build up a Grasso-Mizuki fight (both young, crisp strikers who may become career-long rivals). So, yeah, Livia Renata Souza would be a very good test for her or Almeida.

Jarl
 
Has Karolina ever fought for 5 rounds, though? I`m just curious. We know Katja can do it - even a tough, grinding fight. Has Karolina ever been tested in such a manner? (serious question)

I don't recall her having an mma fight that went for that long although I think she prepared for one once. I'd love to find a good source on some of her other combat experience.

I read some stuff on her once but it was on a forum and that just does not qualify to get a proper sense of what she has done and what she has prepared for.

I always feel like talking about Soukupova`s fights deserve a big asterisk. They are hard to evaluate. She is a beast; she is freakishly strong. I guess I always think about her fight with Roddish; she just overpowered her in every exchange. I know I shouldn`t say this, so I`ll imply it - but she seems unnaturally strong for a natural AW. Freakish strength helps in grappling exchanges and not as much in stand-and-throw kickboxing types of MMA fights. I just wanted to throw that out there as she is the common opponent for Katja and Karolina.

I actually view Soukupova as more of a 110er. She is smallish at 115lbs against the bigger fighters there and is largish at 105lbs. She has also fought some at 125lbs and is very clearly outsized there.

She is strong though and she has made an effort and developing a broad skills set. I remember her coming to the US and other countries to expand her skills. She befriended Lisa Ellis during one of those trips when she was working on her wrestling.

Kankaanpaa and Kowalkiewicz both managed her strength fairly well but Soukupova is also well conditioned and gets better as she fight, normally. She is tough. I remember her fight with Felice Herrig. Herrig dominated the first round, and half of the second round but Soukupova started to pull even as the second round progressed and won the last minute of that round. The third round was a solid Soukupova round.

Really tough.

People are high on Grasso now, but I agree with Thirdpres: she needs a top 10 opponent before she gets a title shot. Mizuki or Eggink are good choices...but I`d like to see them wait and build up a Grasso-Mizuki fight (both young, crisp strikers who may become career-long rivals). So, yeah, Livia Renata Souza would be a very good test for her or Almeida.

Jarl

I almost want to kick myself on Grasso.

One of the reasons I am a little off on writing too much on these boarderline 50/50 fights is that when I first started my mini-breakdown on Invicta 10 I'd been favoring Grasso in her bout with Gray. Then I thought about Gray's very high level Judo background and clinch skills and decided I should take that into account more. Eventually I wrote it was 50/50 on gameplan working - with an assumption Gray would use her Judo. I only slightly gave an edge to Gray based on her clinch/takedown skills being able to better control where the fight goes but noting that I might not be given enough credit (then) to Grasso.

And Gray doesn't use her Judo and gets TKOed. I should have gone with my gut feeling on that fight. Oh well. 8)

I'd love to see Eggink and Mizuki* fight and eventually face off against Grasso, maybe.

But I want Grasso tested by a solid ground fighter. I think Souza is the better choice due to who she has fought and having a mixed Judo/bjj background and she is pretty solid in her general skill sets. Almeida is good but she isn't as well rounded, hasn't been all that active in mma recently, and has a background only in bjj, although high level bjj.

* She likes Mizuki over being refered to as Inoue. Like Cher! Madonna! Mizuki! 8)

And now I need to get some sleep.
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Edit. And I forgot to post what was on my mind that kept me up and from sleep.

I do feel that grapplers have a bit of an edge if an accident happens and a slip occurs during a fight. What is otherwise a close fight or even a one-sided beatdown can totally turn on its head if there is a slip. So that is one feature of fighting that tends to favor Kankaanpaa but it isn't certain.

You never know when that will happen but it does. I view it as a strong influence on Roxy's win over Andrea K. Lee. Roxy did great in exploiting that slip. Good stuff.
 
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