Official Women's Division Discussion #27

Wednesday October 20, 2021

GRAPPLING Who’s #1: The Return of Gordon Ryan Austin, Texas, USA
Main Card – FloGrappling – 8:00pm ET / 5:00pm PT
Luiza Monteiro vs. Beatriz Mesquita
Ffion Davies vs. Nathalie Ribeiro

Thursday October 21

[MMA] Nação Cyborg 10 Bocaiuva do Sul, Parana, Brazil
Main Card – YouTube / Facebook – 6:00pm ET / 3:00pm PT
Elisandra Ferreira vs. Maria Ribeiro
Nicolle Caliari vs. Mayara Thays
Tayná Lamounier vs. Cláudia Leite
Carolina Kerr vs. Daiana Silva
Stéfane Soares vs. Kethylen Rothenburg
Milena Alves vs. Aline David
Andreia Oro vs. Sil Oliveira
Lu Corpinho vs. Gaby Prado
Mariana Campos vs. Rayane Canetti

Friday October 22

[MMA] Ring of Combat 74 Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA
Main Card – iPPV (Fite.tv) – 8:30pm ET / 5:30pm PT
Lauren Braccia vs. Mary Kupp

[MMA] LFA 116: Fremd vs. Valente Vail, Colorado, USA
Main Card – UFC Fight Pass – 10:00pm ET / 7:00pm PT
Pauline Macias vs. Marnic Mann
Preliminary Card –
Jena Bishop vs. Helen Lucero
Brittany Camozzi vs. Kelsey Arnesen

Saturday October 23

[MMA] DEEP 104 Impact Tokyo, Japan
Main Card – iPPV – 5:00am ET / 2:00am PT
Seika Izawa vs. Si Woo Park

[MMA] Bellator 269: Fedor vs. Johnson Moscow, Russia
Main Card – Showtime – 3:00pm ET / 12:00pm PT
Preliminary Card – YouTube – 12:00pm ET / 9:00am PT
Darina Mazdyuk vs. Katarzyna Sadura
Irina Alekseeva vs. Stéphanie Page

[MMA] UFC Fight Night: Costa vs. Vettori Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Main Card – ESPN+ – 4:00pm ET / 1:00pm PT
Jessica-Rose Clark vs. Joselyne Edwards
Preliminary Card – ESPN+ – 1:00pm ET / 10:00am PT
Tabatha Ricci vs. Maria Oliveira
Livinha Souza vs. Randa Markos

[BARE KNUCKLE BOXING] BKFC Fight Night: Wichita Wichita, Kansas, USA
Main Card – iPPV (Fite.tv) – 9:00pm ET / 6:00pm PT
Jessica Link vs. Charisa Sigala
Preliminary Card – Fite.tv – 8:00pm ET / 5:00pm PT

Sunday October 24

[MMA/KICKBOXING] RIZIN.31 Yokohama, Kanagawa, Japan
Main Card – iPPV (Live-Now) – 1:00am ET / 10:00pm PT
Kanna Asakura vs. Saori Oshima

for more please visit https://grabakahitman.com
 
Xuh said:
I'm just recording snippets when playing back the fight in VLCplayer then uploading them to a gif site (I use gfycat, because it has cute cats and makes funny filenames for the gifs).



effortpoasting is hard and time consuming (and then noone reads it anyway), that's why it's better to save your energy and make short shitposts instead (or do it while at work and unsupervised, like me now ;) ).




Running the pipe isn't a forward/back motion, it's a circular/centrifugal where you take a big circular step back with your outside leg while pressing down on their leg (kinda like a shot put in reverse).

Since Loopy was loopin' in a circle while also pressing down on Carolina's leg, I have to assume that's what she was trying to achieve here (why else would someone move like that? - if her aim was to drive her against the fence from the beginning, she would have just kept pushing forward while opponent was on 1 leg). The 'spinning around' is the takedown attempt itself. Carolina hopped in a circle to maintain balance, so she was having to follow Loopy's 'lead'. A common follow-up if the opponent doesn't fall while you're whirling them around is to try and grab the other leg (because while they're hopping, it should come near enough to grab). Since Carolina didn't go down from running the pipe, but hopped about, Loopy drove in and tried to grab the leg below the knee to finish the takedown. But that drive took them against the fence so she could progress no further in that direction, and Carolina started hammerfisting the shit out of her, so she went back to the other leg and peeled her off the fence (she did then push her back on to the fence, probably because Carolina still didn't go down and she wanted a moment to think about what to do next while also keeping control of Carolina). That's my read of what she's trying to do there.
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if you've got 10 mins you can see this and various other moves demonstrated as a series/chain here (and if you have 10 more minutes beyond that, some stuff about 'that thing where they lift the leg higher')



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the difference I see here is in the other clip Loopy was moving backwards to evade the kick, so she was out of range while Carolina was resetting. In this case, Loopy stood her ground and moved her left hand down to try and catch the kick when she sensed one was coming. Then she realised (fast reflexes!) it was coming high and ducked (if she tried going backward this time, it'd have nailed her in the head). So when Carolina was 'resetting', Loopy was already there ready to attack. I do think Loopy was constantly dropping her left hand trying to catch those kicks throughout the fight so I don't think it's fair to say she didn't do it enough and this was an 'exception'. If anything the time when she backed out was more exceptional. But if trying to catch the kicks was all she ever did, a smart opponent would read it, fake a kick then punch (or kick) her head off when she dropped the left to catch it (indeed maybe that's what Carolina was doing trying there). Maybe 'full camp Loopy' with enough drilling/prep work could have done a better job catching the kicks other times though (she seemed a bit unsure about it most of the time).



I'm just bringing it up to hilight the dangers she would face closing in and not want to charge in all the time unless she feels 'safe'. If she's getting kneed in the head while standing up straight it'd be even worse if she was ducking down into it.


(reposting that gif for discussion)
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I see these the other way round: in rd 1 Loopy literally does just push her back against the fence (which isn't 'running the pipe', or even a TD attempt; possibly she was trying to pull down on Carolina's head to try break her posture and run her down though) and got stuck there. However on that occasion, while against the fence Carolina eventually cupped Loopy's head with both hands, so Loopy was able to drop down and maniuplate the legs (using one leg as a lever to peel Carolina off the cage a bit and bring the other leg close enough for a double - similar to the 'run the pipe change to 2' sequence in the other gif). If Carolina had been pulling up on Loopy's arms (which she did most of the rest of the time,after this), Loop wouldn't have been able to try that.

In the rd 2 gif Loopy actually was trying to TD her right away before they got to the fence (by running the pipe) then changing off, quite similar to how she actually succeeded in rd 1 at the end of this gif. But in rd 2, when they got stuck against the fence, Loopy got stuck bent over with Carolina's weight on top of her and Luana's legs far apart (so she couldn't finish an attack on 2 legs and had to go back to attacking just 1).

So I'd say it's the opposite: Loopy actually did 'just push her against the fence' in the 1st round clip, and was trying to TD her immediately away from the fence in the 2nd round clip; in both cases Carolina had to 'counter' to begin with either time (by moving backwards in one, or hopping to maintain balance in the other), but then it was Carolina's choice to go for a thai clinch in the 1st that opened up the TD later in the sequence; in round 2 she made the choice to keep her weight on Loopy, or pulled up hard with overhooks so she couldn't get to her knees.
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Ahh, You said running the pipe and not running down the pipe. Where I'm from when you say running down the pipe or straight down the pipe when you play basketball(my main love) it's a term that means you are going right at the person. You drive the ball straight into the guys chest to not give him enough space to block your shot. I never knew that's what they called that move in MMA. So that was a source of misunderstanding between us.

I will concede defeat. It seems like the farther we get from the fight the less it interest me. I guess that is why if I miss a fight live I usually don't go back and watch it after the fact unless its one that I am extremely excited about. I am starting to get interested more in the new matchups/stories for the next card. I did have fun debating though. I also finally have an idea how to make GIFs, so that is cool.
 
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Kuksenkov said:
The problem is, these hoes are scared of fighting her. Not afraid of HER, but afraid their shit will get halted like it was for Antonina, Joanne, Cynthia, and Vivi. Katlyn has said multiple times that she'll fight whoever, and is even willing to take fights at Bantamweight. She's not the problem; these other fighters not being able to beat her IS the problem. She's got movement, volume, height, reach, sound effects, and is good at defensive grappling. A nightmare fight for the average and below average fighters.

Katlyn already fought Antonina when they were ranked #1 and #15 respectively. She was willing to fight Alexa Grasso, when she was ranked OUTSIDE the Top 10 too. Murphy ducked her, and keeps ducking her for a good reason. Calderwood wants no part of her either. Andrade is running back to 115. Calvillo lost back to back, she doesn't need a third loss in a row.

So you feed her "prospects" that will be derailed, or you give her the only woman who is willing to work her way up for a rematch with Valentina. Otherwise you're left with people you don't want to climb up the rankings: Roxy, Eye, etc.
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Many good points. I did not really see her as a prospect killer but when you put out the facts like that she definitly is. Add to that she is usually in boring fights where even if you manage to win you wont build any hype from it. It actually makes sense why people would not want to fight her.
 
Askafan said:
The Eye vs Maia fight was a good example of a pointless fight. Instead they could have matched them with prospects. No-one would have batted an eyelid at, say, Maia vs Maverick if they were still in Invicta, but we've fetishised the rankings so now it's somehow unthinkable in the UFC.
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Inicta couldn't put together a top ten ranking system if they wanted to, let alone a top fifteen. They simply don't have the roster to do so. A fighter in Invicta gets a few wins, what else to do with them but a title shot? Meanwhile, UFC has fighters they built up, fighters from LFA, Invicta, CFFC, etc, etc, it's easy for them to set an established hierarchy.
Then consider that Maia was mixing it up with the ladies in the UFC and establishing herself near the top a full two years before Maverick got the call up, it makes even more sense why the UFC wouldn't mix the two.
 
leto1776 said:
Inicta couldn't put together a top ten ranking system if they wanted to, let alone a top fifteen. They simply don't have the roster to do so. A fighter in Invicta gets a few wins, what else to do with them but a title shot? Meanwhile, UFC has fighters they built up, fighters from LFA, Invicta, CFFC, etc, etc, it's easy for them to set an established hierarchy.
Then consider that Maia was mixing it up with the ladies in the UFC and establishing herself near the top a full two years before Maverick got the call up, it makes even more sense why the UFC wouldn't mix the two.
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I'm not suggesting Invicta have rankings, infact they're better off without them. The first rankings were a collaboration between Ring Magazine and Tex Rickard, so basically a marketing device for the media and the promoter - they'd have been better staying like that, rather than being the totem they've become.

Rankings certainly work in tennis, but there players compete more than three times a year and the up and comer has the opportunity to test themselves against the best on a regular basis. Maybe there's an argument that rankings prevent mismatches, although being signed to the UFC supposedly means you're in the top 20 or 30 in your division. The reality seems to be that it allows established names to sit on their laurels while condemning the prospect to the long haul, after all no-one objected to a 22 year old like Kuma fighting Maia in Invicta.
 
Eater of Souls said:
Weekend picks:

Jessica-Rose Clark
Tabatha Ricci
Livinha Souza

All by decision.
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I hope really Randa wins. This is the last fight on her contract with no talks of re-signing yet. So she is already not in a good spot.

I am also interested in seeing if JRC can have another amazing performance like her last one.
 
Askafan said:
I'm not suggesting Invicta have rankings, infact they're better off without them. The first rankings were a collaboration between Ring Magazine and Tex Rickard, so basically a marketing device for the media and the promoter - they'd have been better staying like that, rather than being the totem they've become.

Rankings certainly work in tennis, but there players compete more than three times a year and the up and comer has the opportunity to test themselves against the best on a regular basis. Maybe there's an argument that rankings prevent mismatches, although being signed to the UFC supposedly means you're in the top 20 or 30 in your division. The reality seems to be that it allows established names to sit on their laurels while condemning the prospect to the long haul, after all no-one objected to a 22 year old like Kuma fighting Maia in Invicta.
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Rankings work when applied properly. When nopt applied properly, it screws up everything. No fighter should be allowed to sit on their laurels. Joanna, for example, should be removed until she decides she wants to fight again. ANy fighter who goes 12 months without a fight, should be removed unless they have a fight booked and happening soon.

Also, ranking moves should not take place if a fighter hasn't fought recently. For example, Amanda Lemos ust moved up one spot mysteriously.

Another example of ranking gone awry: Manon Fiorot just moved into the rankings at 14, moving O'Neill down one and removing Maverick. How do Fiorot's wins weigh more than O'Neill? O'Neill has three finishes to Fiorot's 2, and O'Neill's wins all come over fighters who had fought in the UFC more than once, compared to Fiorot's one.

Again, if people knew what they were doing, rankings work.

You brought up Invicta, which again is a bad example, as they have a much, much samller body of fighters to work with. Also, age is not equal to experience, as NieszWiedz was also coming off a win over Vanessa Porto before that fight.
 
Weekend picks:
I like Edwards here I think her striking is sharper and jessy-jay will be rusty
Ricci but I don't know her opponent
Markos should win this if she aggressive and uses any wrestling, Souza hasn't been good in the UFC maybe I just want a Canadian to stay here tho.
 
DEEP makes better fight trailers than the UFC with a small fraction of their budget:


Deep Jewels strawweight champ Seika Izawa and Deep Jewels atomweight mainstay Si Woo Park meet at Deep 104 Impact! this Saturday in a super atomweight (108lb) bout. Everyone acknowledges the fight is at that weight to propel the winner to RIZIN.
 
Piera Rodriguez vs. Valesca Machado. Outstanding strawweight fight last night on the contender series. Both fighters employed their strengths and showed good fight iq.

Piera Rodriguez was better at executing her plans. She has a strong left hook, throws combos off a counter, handles herself well against the cage. She was signed to the ufc. Should make herself known at strawweight. Trains out of Black House in CA.

Valesca Machado showed fine ability to get in and out quickly with her striking. Needs work on clinch and takedown defense. She wasn't signed but I'm looking forward to seeing her progress in the future.

It's on espn+ in case anyone wants to watch it. Interested in any thoughts or comments on the fight and / or these fighters.
 
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