Official Women's Division Discussion #24

[fortheo]

The idea put forward in the original post is not having Karolina taking that fight. So she is out by the nature of the discussion. I have mixed feelings about Rose Namajunas fighting Jessica Andrade, assuming she loses to Joanna Jedrzejczyk.

Rose off of a loss against Andrade. Hrm. Not keen on that one. I usually don't like seeing someone coming off a loss, even to the champ, fighting someone coming off a win against the former number 2 in an org.

And Andrade would be looking more like someone deserving of another title shot while the UFC probably doesn't see an upside to having Andrade get another title shot so soon.

Still fun fights though.

Pereira has two fights in the UFC, and if she beats saurez that will be three, not to mention she'd be 14-0. I think the UFC doesn't want her anywhere near a title, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they let Andrade try to take her out. This is assuming Pereira beats Saurez, of course.


Also, the thing with Andrade is that they will mostly only want her to fight other former title contenders so that she doesn't prevent new challengers from appearing for JJ.

 

[Thirdpres]

It's fun speculating potential matchups. Many possibilities shake out with each fight & we've got some exciting ones before the year is over. I can understand why most fighters don't look past their current opponent. Every fight presents unique challenges. Not only skills versus skills, but mental & physical ones as well.

Yep. When I was competing I never even thought about who I was fighting/wrestling/grappling against until I was facing them. In wrestling it was just tournaments so I just dealt with one after another. No point in worrying about who was who or what they'd done. Just get in their and do your thing.

 

[Thirdpres]

Pereira has two fights in the UFC, and if she beats saurez that will be three, not to mention she'd be 14-0. I think the UFC doesn't want her anywhere near a title, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if they let Andrade try to take her out. This is assuming Pereira beats Saurez, of course.


Also, the thing with Andrade is that they will mostly only want her to fight other former title contenders so that she doesn't prevent new challengers from appearing for JJ.

Yeah. I was forgetting Valerie there. I was wondering why that didn't make sense when I was typing my thoughts up. (I should have double checked my thought on that. Annoying)

(Edit) I knew I wanted to address Pereira at one point and wasn't recalling her UFC debut, despite having watched it(!)*. I was thinking she is too low in the rankings, not even listed I think in the top fifteen. I figured she was too low to bother with anyways thus not a good choice for Andrade.

I had a similar thought with Markos. I could see Markos getting Pereira for this reason. Of course Paige VanZant is leaving the division so her place will open up a spot in the rankings. Joanne Calderwood too for that matter.

*(That might have been why I stopped thinking about her record at that point. I decided it was not worth continuing that line of thinking. Glad I come to that thought. (It could be that I've been drinking more then normal and it has been a long day. Family, kids, dogs, and big meal get together today - freaking 25lb roast in the oven at 6am this morning.)

(Edit again) Going back to my thought on Gadelha, aside from taking a fight with someone else coming off a loss she may very well be used to pick off a fellow rising Brazilian in Brazil to keep too many from being inline for a title shot.

I'd think they will look at other title challengers from previous fights rather then Rose Namajunas. However. That might all depend on how that fight goes. If Rose isn't at all competitive they might like that idea but they still won't like Andrade looking like the person who should be fighting for the title next either.

--

Another wrinkle that occurs to me. Joanna Jedrzejczyk maybe going up in weight to flyweight within two to three fights. The UFC might want to try and keep Karolina Kowalkiewicz's record and standing** in the Strawweight Division intact if that happens as she might very well be able to take the title after Jedrzejczyk moves up in weight class. At the very least the UFC might want to put her in title contention.

All of that is a while away though. Jessica Andrade stands a pretty good chance of defeating Kowalkiewicz and that makes for a tougher road for her to challenge for the title even if it is a decent period of time before that happens; she have to win a good number of fights against fairly tough people if she were to lose to Andrade.

A year or so is enough time for several fights to take place. Lots of variables.


** I suspect the UFC would prefer Kowalkiewicz as a champion then several other potential candidates from Brazil. They'd want an American if they can manage it but another attractive and capable Pole would be better from a marketing perspective. (I am not condoning this behavior, just acknowledging it exits and it a part of how the UFC does business.)

Note: I made an edit directed to the previous post of mine that is quoted here relating to Namajunas after a loss to the champ, hypothetically, getting Andrade versus Kowalkiewicz after two losses was given Esquibel by comparison. (Power Outage and DNS down for a while.)

I was also thinking of how Gadelha vs. Andrade had Gadelha calling for the next title shot after she felt she would win that fight, something the UFC wasn't interested in from what I recall. (I admit my memory could be off for several reasons tonight.) I'd doubt the UFC would be interested in repeating the situation with Andrade.

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Than, again, I should probably get to sleep. Long day and night and with the weather being ... stormy ... for the last eight hours or so ... hrm. I not up to sleeping yet though. I hate rolling around in bed with thoughts on my mind even if they are stupid and influenced by purple faeires.

 

[leto1776]

I know but I am thinking of who might fit the bill down the line. There are a good number of matches coming up that will probably determine who she fights. Some seem like they would be okay but also mismatches too.

Waterson vs. Torres, winner faces Jessica Andrade. Huge size disparity there and might not be the fight the UFC wants to do even if the rankings make sense for it.

Markos is fairly far down and is coming off a loss.

If Grasso is to fight Karolina Kowalkiewicz as speculated that might be an okay matchup.

Viviane Pereira vs Tatiana Suarez. Seems a little early for Suarez and Peraira only has one fight (Edit - two fights) in the UFC. Not really high enough in the ranks.

Felice Herrig vs Coutney Casey, winner faces Andrade is a little bit better. Not quite the size disparity. And it allows an out for Cynthia Calvillo to avoid Andrade if she defeats Esparza due to timing. It would make some sense for Herrig or Casey to get that fight.

Going with the winner of Herrig vs Casey allows the UFC protects the people they want to get title shots without them facing Andrade and having losers or up and comers to fight Gadelha on the other hand.

Just having fun speculating of course.

Why do you avoid mentioning a Calvillo vs Andrade matchup, unless you assume, like mod,mthat she won't face th top five before fighting for the ttitle?

 

[Thirdpres]

Why do you avoid mentioning a Calvillo vs Andrade matchup, unless you assume, like mod,mthat she won't face th top five before fighting for the ttitle?

I remember thinking about Cynthia Calvillo at one point. Hard to remember why I didn't write much up about it.

I was thinking of it being a matter of her being protected, to a degree, and not assuming she will defeat Carla Esparza. No point in mentioning Calvillo unless she defeats Esparza. I think that latter was the chief most reason now that I am typing and thinking about it again.

(Edit) And I was thinking Esparza is too far away to bother mentioning being in the mix at this point hence causing the whole issue of their fight getting further away from the subject. (i.e., Who, based on their next fight, is likely to end up fighting Jessica Andrade. Fights that make sense. Lastly fights the UFC would want to happen and how to "manage" what happens as best they can for their bottom line.)

Although I thought Esparza won her fight with Markos, by a hair. Close fight; if she had won that fight it would be a different dynamic. (Then there is the Markos vs Grasso fight which is another topic but that is going off topic.)

Another issue is not that Calvillo might not face a top five fighter, she may*, but the topic I was looking at was from who is currently fighting and who might face Andrade. (And as an aside topic not face Andrade.)

*(Edit) To elaborate a bit further. I'd see Calvillo vs the winner of Tecia Torres vs Michelle Waterson assuming they have her fight someone in the top five. This matchup makes the most sense if Waterson wins in my opinion. Torres would have a fair argument for a title shot based off the win in my opinion. (Deleted some side topics.) (And adding another topic. I guess Calvillo could also fight the loser of the fight if the UFC decides the winner deserves a title fight and the fight was good or whatever.)

(The UFC might have Calvilo fight Andrade but I would suspect not. Just an assumption, not fact.)

--
While it was Jessica Andrade who I was thinking about getting fights, who is likely to fight her, etc., Cynthia Calvillo is another good topic. If all goes well for her she might have a title shot in 2-3 fights. I'd be a bit disappointed if she where to get it with a win over Esparza.

 

[PurpleStorm]

Agree Cynthia Calvillo's a good topic. Interested in seeing who she'll fight next. Maybe some of it will depend upon upcoming scheduled fights, & how they all shake out.

 

[Eater of Souls]

Agree Cynthia Calvillo's a good topic. Interested in seeing who she'll fight next. Maybe some of it will depend upon upcoming scheduled fights, & how they all shake out.

Would simply like for her to get a few more fights and have time to develop. Too many women get rushed to title shots.

 

[SugarKrok]

I kinda hope Rose wins because it would open up 115 a lot to top matches. Of course if Rose does win, I'd guess it would need to be in dominating almost humiliating fashion for JJ not to get a rematch. Doubt shed move up to 125 after a loss either.

After JJ wins and moves up, it'd be cool if on any given day of the week everyone in the top 7-8 could beat one another. Would be interesting to see how the UFC would market.

 

[MajorTB]

All she has to do is win once, get interviewed, and the threads will appear.



edit: With her signing, Invicta's 115 is now looking like Terry Schiavo: an empty husk.

I think in the long run this might help the division overall. While it clears out the last (active, as Mizuki exists) "star" of the division if you will.. it almost gives it a much needed reset. Instead of having Livia versus underskilled prodpects, you now have a more even playing field.

Morandin vs Virna Jandiroba would produce a good challenger for the belt, the winner could face a returning Inoue.

I remember thinking about Cynthia Calvillo at one point. Hard to remember why I didn't write much up about it.

I was thinking of it being a matter of her being protected, to a degree, and not assuming she will defeat Carla Esparza. No point in mentioning Calvillo unless she defeats Esparza. I think that latter was the chief most reason now that I am typing and thinking about it again.

(Edit) And I was thinking Esparza is too far away to bother mentioning being in the mix at this point hence causing the whole issue of their fight getting further away from the subject. (i.e., Who, based on their next fight, is likely to end up fighting Jessica Andrade. Fights that make sense. Lastly fights the UFC would want to happen and how to "manage" what happens as best they can for their bottom line.)

Although I thought Esparza won her fight with Markos, by a hair. Close fight; if she had won that fight it would be a different dynamic. (Then there is the Markos vs Grasso fight which is another topic but that is going off topic.)

Another issue is not that Calvillo might not face a top five fighter, she may*, but the topic I was looking at was from who is currently fighting and who might face Andrade. (And as an aside topic not face Andrade.)

*(Edit) To elaborate a bit further. I'd see Calvillo vs the winner of Tecia Torres vs Michelle Waterson assuming they have her fight someone in the top five. This matchup makes the most sense if Waterson wins in my opinion. Torres would have a fair argument for a title shot based off the win in my opinion. (Deleted some side topics.) (And adding another topic. I guess Calvillo could also fight the loser of the fight if the UFC decides the winner deserves a title fight and the fight was good or whatever.)

(The UFC might have Calvilo fight Andrade but I would suspect not. Just an assumption, not fact.)

--
While it was Jessica Andrade who I was thinking about getting fights, who is likely to fight her, etc., Cynthia Calvillo is another good topic. If all goes well for her she might have a title shot in 2-3 fights. I'd be a bit disappointed if she where to get it with a win over Esparza.

Cynthia Calvillo is unlikely to face Gadelha (who will likely fight unmarketable fringe top 10 fighters for her next few) or Andrade (who will likely fight other ex title challengers) on her path to the belt. I would guess that if Calvillo beats Esparza, she'll fight the loser of Torres/Waterson, or maybe (and it's a big maybe) KK.

If Felice beats Casey, don't be surprised to see them throw her at Calvillo either. While I think Calvillo is a bit overrated in her current state, I'm not gonna sit here and say she doesn't have enormous potential. She needs more time, specifically to work on her takedowns.

 

[Thirdpres]

Cynthia Calvillo is unlikely to face Gadelha (who will likely fight unmarketable fringe top 10 fighters for her next few) or Andrade (who will likely fight other ex title challengers) on her path to the belt. I would guess that if Calvillo beats Esparza, she'll fight the loser of Torres/Waterson, or maybe (and it's a big maybe) KK.

If Felice beats Casey, don't be surprised to see them throw her at Calvillo either.

I don't think Calvillo will be fighting Andrade or Gadelha either.

Losers of Herrig/Casey or Torres/Waterson make more sense from what I suspect the UFC will do if she defeats Esparza. She could get a shot against one of the winners, more likely Herrig/Casey, if she does very well against Exparza and the Herrig/Casey fight doesn't entertain or interest people.

It sometimes depends on how the fights themselves playout.

 

[Thirdpres]

I kinda hope Rose wins because it would open up 115 a lot to top matches. Of course if Rose does win, I'd guess it would need to be in dominating almost humiliating fashion for JJ not to get a rematch. Doubt shed move up to 125 after a loss either.

After JJ wins and moves up, it'd be cool if on any given day of the week everyone in the top 7-8 could beat one another. Would be interesting to see how the UFC would market.

That would be fun to see.

 

[Larisa.]

Y'all Lipski is a BEAST. That was a great performance. I hope they try for the Rin Nakai fight again because that'd be a great one to watch... if not that then I hope they bring in Kamila Porczyk because I dislike her and her shenanigans at weigh-ins and seeing Lipski do what she did to Morais but to Porczyk would make my life.

 

[DonCarlos]

Ariane is love. Ariane is life.

 

[msm1981]

What is lost in shuffle at strawweight at this point is
Rose Namajunas could beat Joanna but there will be
no clear contender besides Felice Herrig,Tecia Torres
& Cynthia Calvillo fights pending do to the fact that the
rest of the division has 1 win or none at this point.

 

[Thirdpres]

Y'all Lipski is a BEAST. That was a great performance. I hope they try for the Rin Nakai fight again because that'd be a great one to watch... if not that then I hope they bring in Kamila Porczyk because I dislike her and her shenanigans at weigh-ins and seeing Lipski do what she did to Morais but to Porczyk would make my life.

It was nice.



--
Christine Ferea seems to be head to Invicta 26. Makes sense. Looking forward to seeing her fight.

 

[Eater of Souls]

What is lost in shuffle at strawweight at this point is
Rose Namajunas could beat Joanna but there will be
no clear contender besides Felice Herrig,Tecia Torres
& Cynthia Calvillo fights pending do to the fact that the
rest of the division has 1 win or none at this point.

Should Rose win, I am sure the UFC will want JJ to have an immediate rematch.

 

[Dr John Smith]

Y'all Lipski is a BEAST. That was a great performance. I hope they try for the Rin Nakai fight again because that'd be a great one to watch... if not that then I hope they bring in Kamila Porczyk because I dislike her and her shenanigans at weigh-ins and seeing Lipski do what she did to Morais but to Porczyk would make my life.

How's her English?

 

[curryjunkie]

just watched heather hardys fight, the supposed boxing champ has no idea of distance apparently, spent most of it at kicking range and when she came inside she got elbowed, the other chick looked unmarked.
dont like KKs chances against andrade, shes just too strong, id like to see her fight grasso.

 

[Rizz]

just watched heather hardys fight, the supposed boxing champ has no idea of distance apparently, spent most of it at kicking range and when she came inside she got elbowed, the other chick looked unmarked.
dont like KKs chances against andrade, shes just too strong, id like to see her fight grasso.

Hardy being a pure striker that does not seem to be good at striking is what put Bellator in a hard position. Usually when building up a fighter you start them with what they are comfortable with and slowly match them against opponents that will start having them use the areas they are weak in. The perfect examples of how to build a prospect is how LFA does it. They did it with Andrea Lee and they are currently doing it with Sabino Mazo and Dern.

Invicta struggles in the area of prospect building. They matched Tiffany Van Soest with a wrestler her 1st fight with them. Bellator tried that with Hardy but in her 1st fight she had trouble with a can and then she got outclassed by another striker that was debuting. You can't book Hardy in a fight vs a wrestler so unless Bellator can find a career can for Hardy to fight their hands are tied. To be honest I think if Hardy does not quit MMA her best next fight is Ana Julaton. It should be an easy win for her and she has no chance of getting badly injured again.

 

[awiv]

Lisa Spangler is now 9-1 as an amateur with her 5th round TKO win over Jessica Borga. In a pro bantamweight division needing more talent I suspect she will have a pretty good choice in where she lands when she turns pro.