Official Judo Thread

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Kalma said:
Last year I had a very limited number of Judo lessons and have gone back again this year. Hopefully will remain injury free unlike last year.

So with the limited number of classe I have been to this year I have already learnt great things , but also got some questions.

1. Combos: In terms of throws I know(not proficiently) O goshi and Tai Otoshi. When it comes to randori I have had it pointed out to me to stop trying for just one throw and rather create a combination. So far I've been trying to put together O Goshi, followed by Tai Otoshi and when that fails I try my version of Osoto Gari (I haven't been taught it officially yet). So I am kind of trying to string three together.

Any one have tips or pointers to help out with developing combos ?

2. When going in for throws (the uchikomi part) I have been stepping forward . I now realize and had it pointed out to me how wrong this is and that I'm basically giving myself to the opponent.

I have watched uchikomi videos on youtube and am confused . Is the person who is doing the throw essentially turning 180 degrees on the spot while dragging drawing their opponent in ? To my untrained eye when watching vids of it done fast it looks like the thrower is stepping in towards their opponent.

Anyone have any tips or vids they recommend watching for this ?

3. I saw in a Dave Camarillo book him showing steps of how he practices entering for throws. He appears to do a thing where he crosses his feet over. The back leg is coming behind the lead leg and the rear foot is now in front of what was the lead foot. I'll try find an image of it. Essentially again I felt this would be stepping into the opponent ? Obviously it's not but it still confuses my Uchikomi thoughts.

3. Grip fighting...haha I have no idea what's happening here

I have several more noob questions but will limit them to this for the mean time.

Any help is mot appreciated.
Click to expand...

Combos- generally want a forward-backward combo rather than a forward-forward. I wouldn't spend a lot of time on Ogoshi-TaiOtoshi combos for that reason. What you find eventually is that most combos are not "try one throw and when they block it move into another". The way it usually works is that you try a throw, say O Soto Gari a few times, and your opponent starts bracing for it by pushing forward as they feel you move. At some point, you fake an Osoto with a little hip twitch or wrist flick, and they push forward, and you hit them with a forward throw. O Soto to Tai Otoshi would work all right, or the other way around.

As for stepping into uke when doing uchi komi, this is a huge pet peeve of mind as an instructor. You step towards Uke a little just to position yourself for the throw, but there has to be enough space for you to pull him off balance. What Camarillo is probably doing (can't say for sure, haven't seen the vid) is stepping towards his opponent very shallow to start his turn. As you turn, the opponent is pulled off balance and the other non planting foot swings around behind your planted foot, but again Uke is already off balance in this scenario.

There are exceptions to this, mostly when you're trying to throw by getting under your opponent. Drop Seio Nage, Tomoe Nage, and many forms of Tai Otoshi would look like this. You're getting low and the off balancing happens because as you drop you pull Uke forward and down with you.

If I could give you one piece of advice on Uchi Komi, it's to turn your head. If you are still looking at your opponent at the end of an Uchi Komi for a forward throw, then you aren't turning your hips and you won't get him off balance in randori. You should be looking directly away (or even 200 degrees or so) from Uke on all forward throws such as Tai Otoshi, Seio Nage, and Uchi Mata.

Hope that helps.
 
o goshi -tai otoshi is not a forward- forward throw combo. tai otoshi is the counter to your opponent avoiding the throw by stepping out to the side. uchi mata - tai otoshi is a favorite combination of many top judokas and it works on the same principle.
 
Kalma said:
Last year I had a very limited number of Judo lessons and have gone back again this year. Hopefully will remain injury free unlike last year.

So with the limited number of classe I have been to this year I have already learnt great things , but also got some questions.

1. Combos: In terms of throws I know(not proficiently) O goshi and Tai Otoshi. When it comes to randori I have had it pointed out to me to stop trying for just one throw and rather create a combination. So far I've been trying to put together O Goshi, followed by Tai Otoshi and when that fails I try my version of Osoto Gari (I haven't been taught it officially yet). So I am kind of trying to string three together.

Any one have tips or pointers to help out with developing combos ?

2. When going in for throws (the uchikomi part) I have been stepping forward . I now realize and had it pointed out to me how wrong this is and that I'm basically giving myself to the opponent.

I have watched uchikomi videos on youtube and am confused . Is the person who is doing the throw essentially turning 180 degrees on the spot while dragging drawing their opponent in ? To my untrained eye when watching vids of it done fast it looks like the thrower is stepping in towards their opponent.

Anyone have any tips or vids they recommend watching for this ?

3. I saw in a Dave Camarillo book him showing steps of how he practices entering for throws. He appears to do a thing where he crosses his feet over. The back leg is coming behind the lead leg and the rear foot is now in front of what was the lead foot. I'll try find an image of it. Essentially again I felt this would be stepping into the opponent ? Obviously it's not but it still confuses my Uchikomi thoughts.

3. Grip fighting...haha I have no idea what's happening here

I have several more noob questions but will limit them to this for the mean time.

Any help is mot appreciated.
Click to expand...

1. Combos can be counter productive to your progress as a new judoka. The issue here is that since you aren't good at any one throw, you are essentially trying to take the easy way out by linking more of them together in an attempt to confuse or overwhelm the opponent. The problem with that is that a lot of the power of the combinations comes from the fact that each attack in the combination is real and thus requires a real counteraction. Without that the combination won't have desired effect. Throwing a lazy jab as the opening of a combination in boxing for example can often be countered disastrously. Also, it may hurt your progress to try and learn new and various techniques all the time, rather than focusing on the core techniques and putting in the thousands of reps required to get them down. Think of that like learning to throw crazy spinning back fists and kicks without knowing how to do a proper jab and straight punch first. If you do a combo just make sure the first attack is REAL, if the opponent isn't defending throw him, if he is THEN and only then do you combine attacks. That said there IS definitely a time for feints too but, like I said I feel like you should try to learn the throws properly first.

2. For most forward throws (seoi nage, harai goshi, uchi mata etc), just imagine you want to pull your opponent 50% of the way and you step 50% of the way. Seoi nage especially is 50/50, hip throws you just want to pull them hard chest to chest then come in deep.

3. I don't remember the official name for it but this crossover step is one of the key movements to enter into many of the different throws of judo for example harai goshi, tai otoshi, uchi mata, ouchi gari etc. If you've done any randori then you've probably noticed it can be difficult to bridge the gaps between yourself and your opponent when sparring if they stiff arm or resist you at all. As I understand it, it's basically a way to bring your hip closer to your opponent by creating an angle, then coming in from that small angle. Also it can help close the distance or drive forward into throws like ouchi gari, because its basically an exaggerated lunging motion somewhat like a fencer lunging forward, but the cross stop allows you to go even deeper. I've heard the same thing taught in wrestling as a "sugar step" thats done before the penetration step during a shoot. However the sugar step isn't as pronounced, and usually is only taught to children. Higher level wrestlers already have the swinging hip motion down enough that they no longer need to do the actual step before the shoot. That's wrestling though and this is judo the posture is different and the other guy has the gi to hold you back. Practice your crossover step ALOT, it is absolutely fundamental.

3. Grip fighting. Honestly if you are new enough that you haven't officially learned osoto gari, grip fighting too much will not be beneficial to you or your partners development. Sure every now and then you can practice your grip breaks but just try to relax and take a normal grip with him, so hopefully he will respond with the same energy, then just enter into throws and sweeps etc as often as you can and build muscle memory.
 
O goshi = forward throw.
Tai otoshi = forward throw.

O goshi + Tai otoshi = forward throw + forward throw.

Is it impossible to throw someone in this manner? Of course not. There are plenty of combinations that work like this, and if it is appropriate based on uke's response, then that's perfect. In this instance, my assumption is that tori is entering for o goshi and their opponent is dropping into jigotai stopping the throw early, at which point a backwards throw makes sense. If, however, as you're suggesting, tori had a deep entry for o goshi and uke was able to step around the hip, I might suggest that there was something wrong with the o goshi in the first place, and certainly wouldn't suggest practicing in a manner that is going to continue that mistake. It would be more productive to fix whatever is wrong with the o goshi that allows an opponent to eascape that late in the game than to work on how you plan on following up when you make the same mistake again.
 
unearth187 said:
o goshi -tai otoshi is not a forward- forward throw combo. tai otoshi is the counter to your opponent avoiding the throw by stepping out to the side. uchi mata - tai otoshi is a favorite combination of many top judokas and it works on the same principle.
Click to expand...

Uchi Mata + Tai Otoshi is not a combo favored by many top Judokas. They work very well together, since if your opponent consistently steps over your Tai Otoshi then the Uchi Mata can work well, but you would never (or rarely) throw the two in combination as in one and then the other as part of the same throwing attempt. As for O-goshi to Tai Otoshi being a valid combo, the gripping difference on this alone make it impractical as Tai Otoshi is very hard to do from the behind the back grip the characterizes O goshi.
 
Anyone know of a good Judo school in or near Fort Wayne, IN?
 


Beautiful kataguruam for wazari at around 43 seconds under the current IJF rules & unb a major IJF match.
 
That was a descent match. The ref allowed time for newaza.
 
Guys....in case you missed it I made a thread about making kouchi-makikomi work for bjj without getting your back taken, any tips would be great.
 
Finally got a good chance to read through the responses to my questions I previously asked. Thanks to those that answered.

I keep think of the throw entry and playing through my head and trying to mimic it in shadow form.

There is a thing I notice the experienced guys doing and have seen on youtube. The guy who is going to do the throw does thing and I'll try to explain it.

So lets say tori and uke are both right handed and have a normal grip on each other.

Tori does this thing where to me it looks like he is leaning in slightly towards uke and swings his right leg back (reminds me of a pendulum)

Tori then brings that right leg in and plants it near uke's right foot for example (or wherever he wants his right foot to be). then he does the pivot thing where he brings his left foot around.

again I still look at it with my untrained eye and think 'aha tori is steeping in ' but i know there is more to it but I just don't know what the 'more to it' is yet.



I have seen drills done where they travel the length of the mat like this

kind of like at the 20 second mark, ..

what is my untrained eye missing...expand my vision if you will



YouTube - Uchikomi practice
 
I'd say what your missing is that it's perfectly fine to step into your opponent.
 
witchbrow said:
Anyone know of a good Judo school in or near Fort Wayne, IN?
Click to expand...

You can go down to Muncie at the Ball State club, that's about the closest I know of.
 
Kalma said:
Finally got a good chance to read through the responses to my questions I previously asked. Thanks to those that answered.

I keep think of the throw entry and playing through my head and trying to mimic it in shadow form.

There is a thing I notice the experienced guys doing and have seen on youtube. The guy who is going to do the throw does thing and I'll try to explain it.

So lets say tori and uke are both right handed and have a normal grip on each other.

Tori does this thing where to me it looks like he is leaning in slightly towards uke and swings his right leg back (reminds me of a pendulum)

Tori then brings that right leg in and plants it near uke's right foot for example (or wherever he wants his right foot to be). then he does the pivot thing where he brings his left foot around.

again I still look at it with my untrained eye and think 'aha tori is steeping in ' but i know there is more to it but I just don't know what the 'more to it' is yet.



I have seen drills done where they travel the length of the mat like this

kind of like at the 20 second mark, ..

what is my untrained eye missing...expand my vision if you will



YouTube - Uchikomi practice
Click to expand...

Some throws you step in more than others...as long as your opponent is off balance, it's probably ok (assuming you have your balance)
 
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