nothing is wrong with point-fighting, love it, embrace it, understand it...

of course, passion is important.

but if dana white say, ''okay, we're gonna stop paying you. you just fight for passion, okay?''

how many fighters would be left in the ufc?
you are asking a moronic question. who would fight for free? who is gonna pay for their expense and such? I never say money isn't important. all I'm stating is you're not going to last long if you just fight for the money and without passion. Once your passion is gone, you lost all desire to compete and train. thus, you will lose.
 
as long as 2 people are punching each other, it's a fight

as long as two team are trying to score a basket in the nba, it's a basketball game

your personal feelings of how the world should or shouldn't be notwithstanding, but of course you are entitled to your opinion

Only you're wrong, and just because YOU say 2+2=5, it doesn't make it so.

A basketball team playing a game of keep away and holding the ball is NOT a game of basketball. More importantly nor does it show or prove that you're better at the game of basketball, mainly because there was a failure to display and engage in ALL the skills that are required to play the game in the first place.

Likewise, in an MMA fight where a fighter turns what is suppose to be a fight into a wrestling match and then proceeds to win the wrestling match did NOT win a fight.

In this hypothetical match, the fighter just wrestled his opponent to the ground and layed on top of him for 3 rounds without causing any damage whatsoever. According to the rules, the fighter did score "points" and the judges may have awarded him the fight, but what was witnessed was not a fight and the fighter did not prove anything other than he is a superior wrestler.

Could you honestly say that guy is a better fighter?
 
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you are asking a moronic question. who would fight for free? who is gonna pay for their expense and such? I never say money isn't important. all I'm stating is you're not going to last long if you just fight for the money and without passion. Once your passion is gone, you lost all desire to compete and train. thus, you will lose.

why is it moronic when you agree with me on the importance of money, and I've also recognized the importance of passion?

on the contrary, it would be moronic of you to agree with me while calling my assertion moronic.
 
Only you're wrong, and just because YOU say 2+2=5, it doesn't make it so.

A basketball team playing a game of keep away and holding the ball is NOT a game of basketball. More importantly nor does it show or prove that you're better at the game of basketball, mainly because there was a failure to display and engage in ALL the skills that are required to play the game in the first place.

Likewise, in an MMA fight where a fighter turns what is suppose to be a fight into a wrestling match and then proceeds to win the wrestling match did NOT win a fight.

In this hypothetical match, the fighter just wrestled his opponent to the ground and layed on top of him for 3 rounds without causing any damage whatsoever. According to the rules, the fighter did score "points" and the judges may have awarded him the fight, but what was witnessed was not a fight and the fighter did not prove anything other than he is a superior wrestler.

Could you honestly say that guy is a better fighter?

i say 2+2=4, not 5.

of course, a game of ball keep away is not basketball.

and no, the better fighter doesn't always win. lots of factors come into play, such as luck, better game plan, bad judging, a bout of diarhea before the fight, etc.

but basketball as it is, is basketball. and mma as it is, is mma. whether or not you agree or like all the rules that are involved and how each sport is played.

if they change basketball to just a keep away game, or turn mma into a rock-scissor-paper contest, then yes i would agree with you that the former would no longer be basketball and the latter would not be a fight.
 
why is it moronic when you agree with me on the importance of money, and I've also recognized the importance of passion?

on the contrary, it would be moronic of you to agree with me while calling my assertion moronic.

Do you not fucking understand not every MMA fighters fight for the money? Many of them just want to be the best in the world and hold the belt. Of course money is important but being the best in the world is more important to them. It's a passion, a drive and desire. DO I HAVE TO FUCKING REPEAT MYSELF EVERY FUCKING TIME FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?
 
Do you not fucking understand not every MMA fighters fight for the money? Many of them just want to be the best in the world and hold the belt. Of course money is important but being the best in the world is more important to them. It's a passion, a drive and desire. DO I HAVE TO FUCKING REPEAT MYSELF EVERY FUCKING TIME FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?

so name one professional fighter that doesn't fight for money.

go ahead, i'll wait...
 
PREACH! Some of the best fights I've ever seen have been by "point fighting"

What kind of stupidity is this? There has never in the history of combat sports been an entertaining point fight. That is why Judo, BJJ, and wrestling are completely unwatchable as sports. Participation and competition, sure. Entertaining to watch, HELL NO.
 
What kind of stupidity is this? There has never in the history of combat sports been an entertaining point fight. That is why Judo, BJJ, and wrestling are completely unwatchable as sports. Participation and competition, sure. Entertaining to watch, HELL NO.

it's just his opinion, you don't need to bash his brain over it.

to each his own. he enjoys point fighting, you don't. c'est la vie.
 
There are two things going on everytime a fight is scheduled-
1. A fight
2. A match

Someone could point fight and win the match but be a bloody mess and lose the fight. Unfortunately, all the scoring is based on who won the match.
 
Gotta respect fighters that go out there to finish fights.

I hate that people have the mentality that winning a decision is more impressive the finishing someone, and how finishing someone is a fluke. Cain vs JDS is a perfect example. Finishing someone is not a fluke, if you get knocked out or subbed, you did something wrong and/or your opponent did something right

Totally agree.

There were many different versions of the sport before The Unified Rules turned this thing into a 10-9 Wrestle-boxing contest.

And in every sport, there are fans who think the grinding aspect shows who is better, but doesn't appreciate the impact of big plays.
I know tons of football fans who can't handle it when their "better" team loses because a kick got returned for a TD and an inopportune turnover happened.

The truth is, in MMA, all scores go out the window as soon as there is a finish.
 
I don't despise point fighting; its a sport after all.

However some point-scoring techniques do absolutely nothing to contribute to a fighters chance at finishing the fight; they don't wear their opponent down, they don't take them out of their game, and they have zero chance at causing a stoppage.

I think judges have come around in the last year on that kind of stuff.
 
so name one professional fighter that doesn't fight for money.

go ahead, i'll wait...

Of course everyone who fights pro, fights for money.
That's the definition of a "pro".

On the flipside, there are a million times as many people PAYING their own money to watch. This is about us. What are we paying for?
Personally, I'm not paying to see wrestleboxing and 10-9 rounds. Beyond the money, I don't want to waste time if I don't like it, either.
If it doesn't get finished, fine. The INTENT should be to finish; not to win 10-9 rounds with a couple of irrelevant surprise TD's, pinning a guy against the cage, and "outstriking" the opponent with patty-cake strikes.
 
I don't like point fighting because I think if you call yourself a fighter you should have a fighter's mentality.

Unfortunately you're right, TS, in that the UFC is very much a game, and not an actual fight.

It's a game, a sport, and like any other game it has a particular set of rules, a lot of those rules actually being very ridiculous if you look at them from a fighting perspective, but rules nonetheless.

But in my mind, a true fighter shouldn't even concern himself with the idea of "playing the game". Maybe I'm just naive, but I believe that the "true" fighters, the "just bleed" fighters, will mostly be superior in the end, because that is what fighting is all about; it's about destroying your opponent, as efficiently ass possible, and as quickly as possible.
 
It all depends on what you feel point fighting is. I feel as though the definition of point fighting has been changed to include anyone who utilizes constant movement plus counter striking, but does not finish their opponent. Some of my favorite fighters have been or are currently being considered point fighters and I eagerly anticipate every fight, even knowing it will most likely go to a decision.

Of course, a healthy dose of Just Bleed fights are also a must.
 
you have the right to say to them ''don't fight''

they have the right not to listen to you

therefore you also can exercise the right to ''stop watching'' as you've stated.

And to be honest, I have for the most part. Sometimes I have the fights on, or I head to the bar with some friends.... but it's more background noise at this point.
 
The UFC has a series of DVDs titled "Ultimate Knockouts".

The UFC also has a series of DVDs titled "Ultimate Submissions".

There's a reason the UFC does not sell videos titled "Ultimate Decisions".

So obvious and basic and true.

Fans want to see fighters winning fights, not winning rounds.

It's not that every fight has to end in a finish. It's that every fighter should be TRYING to finish.
 
Of course everyone who fights pro, fights for money.
That's the definition of a "pro".

On the flipside, there are a million times as many people PAYING their own money to watch. This is about us. What are we paying for?
Personally, I'm not paying to see wrestleboxing and 10-9 rounds. Beyond the money, I don't want to waste time if I don't like it, either.
If it doesn't get finished, fine. The INTENT should be to finish; not to win 10-9 rounds with a couple of irrelevant surprise TD's, pinning a guy against the cage, and "outstriking" the opponent with patty-cake strikes.

And of course, you may exercise your right to view according to your taste. Just as others do who can appreciate point fighting.

Just as fighters do in using point fighting strategy to secure a win or prolong their livelihood, knowing the risks that the decision may go the other way or they may be cut because they are not popular.

And at the end of it, all 3 groups would complain about things that don't go their way, such is human nature.
 
And of course, you may exercise your right to view according to your taste. Just as others do who can appreciate point fighting.

Just as fighters do in using point fighting strategy to secure a win or prolong their livelihood, knowing the risks that the decision may go the other way or they may be cut because they are not popular.

And at the end of it, all 3 groups would complain about things that don't go their way, such is human nature.

Correct.

But the trends indicate that Dana (probably rightly) thinks that the point fighters are less appreciated, thus leading to the UFC's ommission of Fitch, Okami, Shields, and Askren.
 
Correct.

But the trends indicate that Dana (probably rightly) thinks that the point fighters are less appreciated, thus leading to the UFC's ommission of Fitch, Okami, Shields, and Askren.

but at the same time, he probably would love to have GSP back. Which means that ''point fighting'' isn't the only determinant factor -- popularity which translates to selling seats and ppv count a great deal.
 
If you can't finish fights, there is something lacking in your technique and ability.

This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read on sherdog, which puts it high on the list of dumbest things I've read on the internet, which puts it in competition with the dumbest things that have ever occurred in the internet. I am fucking amazed that someone with such a low IQ can not only log onto a computer, type "sherdog.com" into a browser and write with complete sentences. What the fuck, science?
 
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