North Korea Threatens to Scuddle Talks

Trotsky said:
It's refreshing that Americans are finally starting to soften on the "North Korea are the ultimate evil and we are the good guys" default position.

For as absolutely shitting as the Kim regime is, it's no excuse for our legendary douche baggery over the years, from committing war crimes in the Korean War, to constantly threatening them with military exercises, to repeatedly welshing on agreements.

We bombed their dams, attacked their crops, and killed almost half of their population and then perpetually began running constant military operations on their turf and we're still proclaiming ourselves as the good guys? It's deplorable. If there was one "upside" to Trump that I saw in the campaign, it was his willingness to admit American brutality (even if it was just to cover Putin's ass). I would really gain respect for him if he took a stance here and spoke frankly about our role in these hostilities.
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I don't understand the point of this comparison. Can you expand on why people today should keep history in mind that occurred in the 50s by people no longer alive as we compare that to atrocities being committed by KJU today? I certainly open to the idea I'm just not following this line of reasoning or just have your position wrong.

If I have it right it's sort of comparable to how we treat murderers that lived horrible lives, faced abuse from parents or other adults growing up, have a genetic disposition to violence to begin with (to no fault of their own), etc.. Sure, we can have sympathy for all of that but we need to treat that person as the threat to society that they are.
 
Some food for thought. If there's a deal at all it will be about a thousand times worse than the Iran deal and it's gonna be funny as hell watching Trumpsters trying to pretend that it isn't.

 
Tropodan said:
There is way too much on the line for them to risk fucking up this meeting. The whole process of meeting during the last month or two was to pave the way for both leaders to come to an agreement without walking away with things being worse.
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That's entirely possible, but it is also possible that KJU is just looking to legitimize his regime and has no intention on giving up nukes, or a million other possibilities that we cannot conceive of at this time.
 
it'll happen. Just dangle some Fuddruckers in front of these two and they'll come running.
 
kpt018 said:
I don't understand the point of this comparison. Can you expand on why people today should keep history in mind that occurred in the 50s by people no longer alive as we compare that to atrocities being committed by KJU today? I certainly open to the idea I'm just not following this line of reasoning or just have your position wrong.

If I have it right it's sort of comparable to how we treat murderers that lived horrible lives, faced abuse from parents or other adults growing up, have a genetic disposition to violence to begin with (to no fault of their own), etc.. Sure, we can have sympathy for all of that but we need to treat that person as the threat to society that they are.
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Your post is in turn confusing me. It is my position that contributed to making the Korean people amenable to tyranny and in incentivizing the tyranny itself by our constant threats of resuming the brutal murders of yesteryear and undermining the country's sovereignty using political subterfuge, economic sanctions, and diplomatic ostracization.

I also have no interest in comparing the North Korean threat to any analogy toward being a "threat to society." There is literally nothing about DPRK that is threatening, let alone on the scale of threat that we in fact are.
 
K1levelgrappler said:
Some food for thought. If there's a deal at all it will be about a thousand times worse than the Iran deal and it's gonna be funny as hell watching Trumpsters trying to pretend that it isn't.

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They'll find a way. They always do...
 
K1levelgrappler said:
Some food for thought. If there's a deal at all it will be about a thousand times worse than the Iran deal and it's gonna be funny as hell watching Trumpsters trying to pretend that it isn't.

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LMAO, that can't be the deal. Just LOL.
 
Trotsky said:
Your post is in turn confusing me. It is my position that contributed to making the Korean people amenable to tyranny and in incentivizing the tyranny itself by our constant threats of resuming the brutal murders of yesteryear and undermining the country's sovereignty using political subterfuge, economic sanctions, and diplomatic ostracization.
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Fair enough, I probably read too far into what you were saying.

I also have no interest in comparing the North Korean threat to any analogy toward being a "threat to society." There is literally nothing about DPRK that is threatening, let alone on the scale of threat that we in fact are.
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There certainly is something threatening, so this is wrong. They could kill hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of South Koreans and Americans based in SK in an afternoon. And the comparison of military strength to America misses the point, I think. My understanding is that the goal here is to prevent them from having working nukes and to do it without large death tolls. The question is not can we defeat them, that is obviously yes we can.
 
kpt018 said:
That's entirely possible, but it is also possible that KJU is just looking to legitimize his regime and has no intention on giving up nukes, or a million other possibilities that we cannot conceive of at this time.
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I think if I'm wrong, it's more likely this is China pulling strings in retaliation to Trumps moves.
 
kpt018 said:
Fair enough, I probably read too far into what you were saying.



There certainly is something threatening, so this is wrong. They could kill hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of South Koreans and Americans based in SK in an afternoon. And the comparison of military strength to America misses the point, I think. My understanding is that the goal here is to prevent them from having working nukes and to do it without large death tolls. The question is not can we defeat them, that is obviously yes we can.
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The question is should we? Is NK a real threat to anyone but their own citizens? Sure, they could destroy Seoul, but they would literally be wiped off the map if that happened. There is no incentive for them to be aggressive, outside of trying to appear strong.

Recent history has shown what happens if a country can't provide a credible deterrent to American Hegemonic designs.
 
it's called a bluff

you know like every other single time they have agree to anything with our governments, except this time we got people back w/o paying and the leader actually visited SK....

carry on
 
kpt018 said:
There certainly is something threatening, so this is wrong. They could kill hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) of South Koreans and Americans based in SK in an afternoon. And the comparison of military strength to America misses the point, I think. My understanding is that the goal here is to prevent them from having working nukes and to do it without large death tolls. The question is not can we defeat them, that is obviously yes we can.
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I've never understood this line of logic, either, i.e. "they could kill hundreds of thousands any instant."

The US has 15,000 nuclear warheads, all of which are about 1,000x more powerful than North Korea's. We could realistically kill 3 billion people in a day if we wanted to.
 
HomerThompson said:
The question is should we? Is NK a real threat to anyone but their own citizens? Sure, they could destrot Seoul, but they would literally be wiped off the map if that happened. There is no incentive for them to be aggressive, outside of trying to appear strong.

Recent history has shown what happens if a country can't provide a credible deterrent to American Hegemonic designs.
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Agreed, which is why our policy through multiple administrations has been to apply economic pressure with hopes to pressure them into giving up nuclear ambitions. Of course that changed with Mr. "I have the biggest red buttons" and "fire and fury" took over.
 
Wait, people on either side thought NK would dismantle their nukes?? Only one nuclear nation has ever went operational 0 and they did that under their own accord. At this point it is a matter of how do you keep them from using it without relying on MAD? Also, how do you keep them from completing a reliable shroud system
 
Trotsky said:
I've never understood this line of logic, either, i.e. "they could kill hundreds of thousands any instant."

The US has 15,000 nuclear warheads, all of which are about 1,000x more powerful than North Korea's. We could realistically kill 3 billion people in a day if we wanted to.
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Yes, that makes me uneasy too, especially given who's at the helm right now.

The point of my comment was to illustrate that yes, they are a threat in response to your comment that they are not a threat. I'm certainly not arguing America should not be viewed as dangerous.
 
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