North Korea Threatens to Scuddle Talks

Tropodan said:
I disagree, I believe all parties want this deal. I think Trump tipped his hand a bit for how badly he wants this deal, which has emboldened Kim to chest thump and demand more concessions.

I think cancelling military exercises until the summit was the best strategy.
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Cancelling them would show that the US is considering NK's opinions on things, and be simple no loss gesture showing we want them at the table.
 
Bummer if they actually do pull out. Not entirely unexpected, but a bummer no less. It would be nice to see the citizens of North Korea get some relief.
 
Tropodan said:
Are you playing dumb?

Are you following this story at all?
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Yes and I know that we want them to denuclearize and they want our presence out of South Korea and to lift sanctions, but beyond that it's not clear. So a framing that "both sides want this" is a bit strange for me. I think it's more like we really want NK to denuclearize and they obviously don't, so they'd be giving up much more than we are.

We are asking them to conform to what they want. I don't think NK wants this deal at all.
 
Tropodan said:
I disagree, I believe all parties want this deal. I think Trump tipped his hand a bit for how badly he wants this deal, which has emboldened Kim to chest thump and demand more concessions.

I think cancelling military exercises until the summit was the best strategy.
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The problem with NK is that they have no credibility left whatsoever.
Whatever they say they will do or might be able to negotiate about has to be considered a lie until they actually do it.
Now, of course, that is a difficult position for peace talks so you have to negotiate steps in which both parties give something up together.
Now stopping those exercise and NK in return stops something that can be agreed upon.

But right now giving NK any benefit or leeway is just not justified IMO. That has been done many times and never worked.
 


He has been to China three times since this process has started. He isn’t doing anything China isn’t telling to do.
 
Tropodan said:
You're dreaming of Kim doesn't want those sanctions lifted.

Dreaming.
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Sure he wants them lifted.. but he's not going to budge on nukes. He already has them.

The conversation about sanctions won't go anywhere while they still have a nuclear arsenal.
 
kpt018 said:
Yes and I know that we want them to denuclearize and they want our presence out of South Korea and to lift sanctions, but beyond that it's not clear. So a framing that "both sides want this" is a bit strange for me. I think it's more like we really want NK to denuclearize and they obviously don't, so they'd be giving up much more than we are.

We are asking them to conform to what they want. I don't think NK wants this deal at all.
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NK wants the sanctions lifted, and their nuclear program is in shambles.

If he was demanding the removal of US military personnel in South Korea we'd know about it by now because America isnt going to make that deal. This means Kim has asked for something short of that. No way they scheduled a June summit without having the terms hashed out.
 
eight_col_Kim_Jong-Un_laugh.jpg
 
Anung Un Rama said:
I wouldn't blame them.
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It's refreshing that Americans are finally starting to soften on the "North Korea are the ultimate evil and we are the good guys" default position.

For as absolutely shitting as the Kim regime is, it's no excuse for our legendary douche baggery over the years, from committing war crimes in the Korean War, to constantly threatening them with military exercises, to repeatedly welshing on agreements.

We bombed their dams, attacked their crops, and killed almost half of their population and then perpetually began running constant military operations on their turf and we're still proclaiming ourselves as the good guys? It's deplorable. If there was one "upside" to Trump that I saw in the campaign, it was his willingness to admit American brutality (even if it was just to cover Putin's ass). I would really gain respect for him if he took a stance here and spoke frankly about our role in these hostilities.
 
Russia is using Assad and Syria. China is using Kim and North Korea.
 
Tropodan said:
NK wants the sanctions lifted, and their nuclear program is in shambles.

If he was demanding the removal of US military personnel in South Korea we'd know about it by now because America isnt going to make that deal. This means Kim has asked for something short of that. No way they scheduled a June summit without having the terms hashed out.
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I think we need to be very careful in that we don't have all the facts as citizens and we don't know what is in the minds of KJU and Trump. We should be skeptical of KJU and that he may try to play us.

I also wouldn't make assumptions about what has been hashed out, we really have no idea. This news is definitely a sign that games are being played by KJU.
 
Rational Poster said:
Sure he wants them lifted.. but he's not going to budge on nukes. He already has them.

The conversation about sanctions won't go anywhere while they still have a nuclear arsenal.
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I don't think the facts and recent events support that narrative.
 
kpt018 said:
I think we need to be very careful in that we don't have all the facts as citizens and we don't know what is in the minds of KJU and Trump. We should be skeptical of KJU and that he may try to play us.

I also wouldn't make assumptions about what has been hashed out, we really have no idea. This news is definitely a sign that games are being played by KJU.
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There is way too much on the line for them to risk fucking up this meeting. The whole process of meeting during the last month or two was to pave the way for both leaders to come to an agreement without walking away with things being worse.
 
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