Nogi popularity?

On a related note, I'd like to point out that the the sooner the day comes that Brazilians no longer dominate, the better it will be for the art/sport.

First of all, it will mean that it has truly become an international phenomenon. Think of how baseball and basketball have become popular enough outside of the US for other countries to challenge and even defeat us in international play. For there to be any hope of BJJ ever becoming an Olympic sport, the sport will have to be competitive enough on an international basis for Brazilians to lose their stranglehold on the top levels of competition.

Second, while this will probably be an unpopular concept wth many, the continued growth of BJJ requires the decentralization of the art/sport's most widely accepted governing body. The 'I' in the IBBJF is a joke - not only is the organization run almost if not entirely by Brazilians, but to a large extent by a single person. Even the USBJJF is comprised almost entirely of Brazilian immigrants. For BJJ to truly be considered to have spread internationally, it will need a governing body that reflects that.

So we should all look forward to the day that the podiums at ADCC and the Mundials look more like the United Nations and an American or European or Japanese is the head of the IBJJF, because that will mean that BJJ has truly grown beyond its first initial.
 
Why do you pick on BJJ and the brasilians?

I'm not picking on anybody. My point is that the gi is more popular/respected not because it is inherently better, but simply because that is the way the vast majority of people (and by extension, the vast majority of top competitors) train. The vast majority of people train that way because that is how they learned BJJ. They learned BJJ that way because they learned either directly or within a generation or two from Brazilians, who traditionally train in the gi. Brazilians traditionally train in the gi because that is how the art spread throughout Brazil. And the art spread that way throughout Brazil because it came to Brazil via Japan, which has a long tradition of training in the gi. In other words, starting with the spread of judo from Japan to Brazil, the art has been traditionally trained in the gi, and until recently there hasn't been any reason for this to change.

However, America has a long history of no-gi grappling, so now that the art is becoming more widespread in America we're starting to see more and more people training BJJ predominantly or entirely no-gi.

Allow me to digress: now up to this point, no-gi competitions like ADCC have been dominated by Brazilians (who, as I've pointed out, traditionally train in the gi) because they have several generations of students who started training submission grappling at an early age, while most of the rest of the world has been playing catch-up. Proponents of the gi like to point to the fact that most top no-gi competitors train primarily in the gi as a reason why the gi is a superior training tool, when that's really just a logical fallacy.

In other words, people say

a) most of the top no-gi competitors train primarily in the gi, therefore

b) it's the training in the gi that makes them better at no-gi competitions

when the far more logical reason is that

a) most of the top no-gi competitors are people who started training submission grappling at a young age with experienced, quality instructors and training partners,

b) the vast majority of people who fit that description are Brazilian or learned from/with Brazilians because that is the country with by far the longest history of BJJ training,

c) the vast majority of Brazilians and those who learned from them train primarily in the gi (for the reasons I mentioned in my first paragraph), therefore

d) the gi training is related but not causal.

Getting back to my earlier point, the number of quality no-gi schools, instructionals, and dedicated no-gi competitors is relatively small at the moment because no-gi submission grappling hasn't been back in vogue long enough for there to be the generations of people who started training no-gi at a young age like there is in Brazil with the gi. Now that BJJ is getting popular in America, which again has a long history of no-gi grappling, we're eventually going to start seeing this happen, starting with the current generation of young kids who get into BJJ either through wrestling or watching the UFC. In about 15 years or so these kids will be reaching their early 20s, earning black belts, and making a significant impact in competitions. They will open their own schools, and many of them will choose to train predominantly or entirely no-gi. Their students, in turn, will follow suit, and that's when quality no-gi training (both BJJ and submission wrestling) will become widespread.
 
However, America has a long history of no-gi grappling, so now that the art is becoming more widespread in America we're starting to see more and more people training BJJ predominantly or entirely no-gi.

Allow me to digress: now up to this point, no-gi competitions like ADCC have been dominated by Brazilians (who, as I've pointed out, traditionally train in the gi) because they have several generations of students who started training submission grappling at an early age, while most of the rest of the world has been playing catch-up. Proponents of the gi like to point to the fact that most top no-gi competitors train primarily in the gi as a reason why the gi is a superior training tool, when that's really just a logical fallacy.

In other words, people say

a) most of the top no-gi competitors train primarily in the gi, therefore

b) it's the training in the gi that makes them better at no-gi competitions

when the far more logical reason is that

a) most of the top no-gi competitors are people who started training submission grappling at a young age with experienced, quality instructors and training partners,

b) the vast majority of people who fit that description are Brazilian or learned from/with Brazilians because that is the country with by far the longest history of BJJ training,

c) the vast majority of Brazilians and those who learned from them train primarily in the gi (for the reasons I mentioned in my first paragraph), therefore

d) the gi training is related but not causal.

Bravo sir. Excellent analysis.

Correlation does not imply causation; unfortunately this logic is rarely kept in mind in our daily grappling debates.
 
This is not a gi vs nogi thread, take your fucking idiocy elsewhere.
 
I wasn't sure the thread was about when I read the title, but the first thing that popped into my head was the popularity of both at a competitive level. Judging from the local tournaments there are way more gi competitors than no gi. I don't really know why that is based on some of the points mentioned. You could say that a lot people get into BJJ because of MMA, but they are also sticking with BJJ after some time and have no interest in fighting MMA. There are MMA oriented gyms that train primarily, if not exclusively, no gi, however, the majority of gyms that have BJJ classes are gi.

I train in both and prefer gi. I treat BJJ as a sport and I've always been into sports. Most local tournaments have gi divisions and some are exclusively gi. So for me no gi is just not something I concentrate on. Maybe many others have the same attitude.
 
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