Economy Noam Chomsky- Requiem for the American Dream

[cooks1]

Are you only allowed to be a critic if you've read 150 of his books?

Let's just say you should see the movie before you write the review. If I gave you a D- on your term paper after reading 3% of it, would you call it a fair assessment?

 

[Prutfis]

I realize Noam will be a polarizing and controversial figure here in the War Room. Though I doubt many of his vocal critics have read more than a few of his 150 or so books. I re-watched Requiem for the American Dream for the first time in a while last night, and I am interested in the thoughts of my fellow war-roomers who have actually watched it. Especially from the right.

It's over an hour long. Even if you are not a fan, I would suggest watching it if you have not already.



After watching it again, I can't help but think that big business just LOVES the idea of Americans bickering with one another over their political ideologies as opposed to looking at their actions, and that of the government they have bought (BOTH sides of the aisle) critically and objectively. I also think they must be shitting in their pants to see so many workers quitting their jobs, even in these divisive times.

So have a watch and let me know what you think!!

Most people want to ignore the things Chomsky brings up.. THe average american worker has third world conditions but is more concerned with "his tribe".

 

[SKYNET]

We can certainly agree that whoever ends up in office is likely bought regardless of party. Elections are just too expensive now. But I don't agree with the rest of that assessment. And I think it runs counter to one of 'the right' sides favorite quips- 'If you don't like it- Quit'. That's exactly what people are doing.

I know everyone loves to bash the young here. Raised in a nerfed up world. Less disciplined, more spoiled, less of a work ethic and so on. And I expect a fair bit of that is deserved. But they are a lot more willing than previous generations to depart from their parents value systems, ideologies, and lifestyle choices. They can also communicate more easily with each other much more easily than previous generations.

So yeah 'the right' always says if you don't like it quit but is that the proper move at this time ?

Quitting at a time like this is counterproductive based on the fact that it gives the power back to the corporations.

Yay!! so a pat on the backs for having courage to drop out and one up the right wingers and the boomers but at what point is it cutting off their noses to spite their own faces ?

 

[Natural Order]

Noam’s an intellectual heavyweight and that documentary is another example of why.

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

Micheal Parenti is worth reading/listening to if you like Chomsky

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Let's just say you should see the movie before you write the review. If I gave you a D- on your term paper after reading 3% of it, would you call it a fair assessment?

I get what you're saying but the logic doesn't hold up in this case.

If you critique a post of mine, could I not use your logic and say you've only read .001% of my thoughts and have no room to criticize me until you read all of my posts?

If the guy wrote 5,000 books, which surely no one could ever read them all, would that mean that he is completely defended from criticism until someone out there dedicates their life to reading all of his books?

 

[terrapin]

I get what you're saying but the logic doesn't hold up in this case.

If you critique a post of mine, could I not use your logic and say you've only read .001% of my thoughts and have no room to criticize me until you read all of my posts?

If the guy wrote 5,000 books, which surely no one could ever read them all, would that mean that he is completely defended from criticism until someone out there dedicates their life to reading all of his books?

it would mean you have no right to criticize any position he holds without reading the reasons why he holds them. hence you would have to read the book or books he has written on that position. your dumb analogy only works if the person only read one word of your post. also you are conflating a evolving conversation with a fully developed body of thought/research laid out in a book.


dum dum dum dum dum.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

it would mean you have no right to criticize any position he holds without reading the reasons why. hence you would have to read the book or books he has written on that position.

Exactly so his 150 books are irrelevant if you're criticizing his opinion in whatever piece of literature you've read by him.

 

[terrapin]

Exactly so his 150 books are irrelevant if you're criticizing his opinion in whatever piece of literature you've read by him.

huh?

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

huh?

The original post which I was referring to in the first place talks about 150 books.....never mind lol. It's not even worth explaining. I agree with you though.

 

[terrapin]

The original post which I was referring to in the first place talks about 150 books.....never mind lol. It's not even worth explaining. I agree with you though.

 

[tenniswhiz]

I realize Noam will be a polarizing and controversial figure here in the War Room. Though I doubt many of his vocal critics have read more than a few of his 150 or so books. I re-watched Requiem for the American Dream for the first time in a while last night, and I am interested in the thoughts of my fellow war-roomers who have actually watched it. Especially from the right.

It's over an hour long. Even if you are not a fan, I would suggest watching it if you have not already.



After watching it again, I can't help but think that big business just LOVES the idea of Americans bickering with one another over their political ideologies as opposed to looking at their actions, and that of the government they have bought (BOTH sides of the aisle) critically and objectively. I also think they must be shitting in their pants to see so many workers quitting their jobs, even in these divisive times.

So have a watch and let me know what you think!!

Trainers HATE Noam

 

[cooks1]

I get what you're saying but the logic doesn't hold up in this case.

If you critique a post of mine, could I not use your logic and say you've only read .001% of my thoughts and have no room to criticize me until you read all of my posts?

If the guy wrote 5,000 books, which surely no one could ever read them all, would that mean that he is completely defended from criticism until someone out there dedicates their life to reading all of his books?

I read all of your post before I call your post a shit post. I do not call YOU shit. Nor your other posts. Just that post. Which is, in fact, shit, based on my full reading of the entirety of it. I try not to make a larger deduction about you or your other posts based on that one post, which was read in full, and shit.

Read one of his books- You can with credibility call that book shit if that's how you feel. Read 5, you can with credibility critique those.

 

[cooks1]

So yeah 'the right' always says if you don't like it quit but is that the proper move at this time ?

Quitting at a time like this is counterproductive based on the fact that it gives the power back to the corporations.

Yay!! so a pat on the backs for having courage to drop out and one up the right wingers and the boomers but at what point is it cutting off their noses to spite their own faces ?

How does quitting a job and moving on to one with better pay and working conditions give power back to corporations? More importantly, what is your alternative? Stay and work for less, or quit and don't get another job? You are not making a lot of sense.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Are you only allowed to be a critic if you've read 150 of his books?

I sure hope not since the guy is a linguist and not an economist.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

It's not like they are quitting to sit on their ass. They are quitting for better opportunities. The unemployment rate is under 5%

I don't think the data reflects that.

 

[cooks1]

I don't think the data reflects that.

It does.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

There are more jobs available than unemployed people to fill them. Wages are going up. And companies are having to start offering benefits just to get people on board. These benefits, by the way, were things most employees used to have. But were whittled away over the last 25 years.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/the-labor-shortage-isnt-main-streets-biggest-problem.html

There are more than 10 million open jobs in the U.S., the highest level ever, and over one million more jobs than unemployed people.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

It does.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

There are more jobs available than unemployed people to fill them. Wages are going up. And companies are having to start offering benefits just to get people on board. These benefits, by the way, were things most employees used to have. But were whittled away over the last 25 years.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/the-labor-shortage-isnt-main-streets-biggest-problem.html

so you are saying that people are quitting the large corporations, with benefits, to find a job at a small business that can't afford to offer those benefits.

 

[gluehuffer1776]

Most people want to ignore the things Chomsky brings up.. THe average american worker has third world conditions but is more concerned with "his tribe".

surely millions of illegals will solve these third world conditions

 

[cooks1]

so you are saying that people are quitting the large corporations, with benefits, to find a job at a small business that can't afford to offer those benefits.

No- I am saying people are quitting jobs in companies large and small to go to other jobs with better pay. Some of those companies, large and small, not only offer better pay, but additional benefits. From the article:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/the-labor-shortage-isnt-main-streets-biggest-problem.html

The Q3 CNBC | Momentive survey finds that 32% of small business owners say they have raised wages in the past three months to attract workers, while 27% have offered more flexible hours, and 24% more on-the-job training. Fewer have offered additional benefits, including enhanced medical (8%), educational benefits (7%) and child-care or elder-care benefits (5%).

Ethel’s Baking Company has added long-term and short-term disability, dental and vision, and $2,000 in education, but it can’t afford to pay for the college education of workers like a Target or Walmart recently announced they are doing. “We can’t offer a college education. Everything is going up for us across the board, our raw materials, our packaging, our casings, logistics, wages, benefits, all of that, and it hasn’t been the typical 1% to 2%, but 18%,” Bommarito said.

While some of these 'new' benefits are truly new, most are in fact old benefits that many employees used to have, but were chiseled away over the last couple decades. People don't really realize just how much employers took away during the great recession, and never returned. They should really look at that.