No major injuries or broken bones for Jones or Gus

There is no definitive answer as to who is the P4P best in the world. It is a purely speculative discussion when considering the different weight classes which makes for an apples and oranges comparison. The only way to know for sure who is the best is with an actual fight to prove it and many such determining fights will most likely never take place.

Both fighters showed warrior spirit. Gus never went down after taking some direct heavy shots and he stuffed almost all of the take-down attempts of Jones. In think he was also the first to take Jones down as well. I have no problems giving both fighters tremendous credit for what many are calling the fight of the year.

I am not saying that racism does not exist. All races are subjected to it and even including whites. What I am saying is that it is a hasty rush to judgment to automatically assume that criticisms about a fighter having certain obvious advantages must be race based. We know know from previously cited examples that it has happened to larger white fighters such as Carwin & Lesnar as well. That is the nature of being a professional athlete in the media spotlight and it is across the board.


Ok, but Silva and Jones are still the two best p4p. But you're right, that's subjective. But true. Riddle me that. P4P can't be settled with fights anyway, since Aldo can't fight Cigano to see who's p4p better.

As for Alex, he's an absolute beast!! No two ways about it, that man's a monster. I've never seen a man stumbling like him who STILL COULD NOT be taken down or finished! The man is an absolute monster with tons of heart, no question.

But the real question is "is he too big for LHW and should he move up?" - ha, I'm kidding.

As for racial bias, minorities, especially blacks (in North America anyway) will always see this differently than whites IN GENERAL. I get that whites often sound and seem genuinely confused when racial bias is cited just as blacks often seem genuinely confused that whites can't sense it.

It's just one of those thangs we live with. In MMA, it's magnified. I am not one to claim racial basis for everything, but I'm also not one to have on rose coloured glasses and believe that racial bias doesn't inform many decisions where it shouldn't. Especially among MMA fans.

Good convo. Let's return to fighting because we won't agree on the prevalence of racism in MMA fandom.

But good convo. Not being facetious.
 
Then why was a thread deleted the other day due to racist comments in it aimed at Jones? This isen't the first time it's happened either. Is it just possible there ARE posters here who are racist and make it known in whatever slick way they can? OH, this is a racism free utopia, yes? Is that what you're saying. Are people honestly saying there are never racist and veiled racist comments aimed at Jones In ANY of his threads? If not, why are the threads deleted then for containing racist comments? The simple fact is when people are being racist there is no race card. What you have is a truth that some of you seem to want to overlook because you either do not care, or are part of the problem itself.

Exactly, this is so true, they are terrible and expect no one to notice their ignorance.
 
No thats some bs You haters ( im not gonna say what yall really are to avoid a race discussion ) said.

.....

Jones does nothing fake or cocky, just like Rashad didnt do shit wrong or bad when he came to MMA but everyone and they momma had nothing but unwanted and unwarranted hate for the guy for no reason.

All yall do is play the reverse psychology game and pull the race hate silently like none is suppose to notice this shit.


Many who have spoken to the champion have talked about how humble he is, but Rashad Evans doesn
 
OK.

I don't use race as an excuse for anything I do as I don't do anything that I think needs excusing (at least not where race could be a good excuse).

But whatever. You're right. I'm a hidden racist. You've got me! You should reward yourself for figuring me out. Shall we say a bag of chips?

Are there racially biased black boxing fans? Hell yes. See? I have no problem admitting that. Do I find the opposite dynamic in MMA fans? Hell yes. See? I'm even handed. I don't support racism in any direction. Sorry.

well you used race as the reason for jon not getting credited for being a warrior...which is just completely dumb as fuck, ive never seen anyone try to say jone doesnt have heart. then you used race as the reason for jon getting criticized for being to big for lhw...which is also dumb as shit. ive seen tibau, lim, kang, lesnar, carwin, etc all get shit for being big. the reason jon catches so much shit is because he is a DOMINANT CHAMPION. people see what the wanna see, so to you you see as some racists criticism.
 
did i say there werent racist white mma fans? no. did i say some jones haters dont have other motives? no. do i think there are less racist mma fans than boxing fans? fuck yes!

That might even be true. Never thought about that. Maybe this is the white racist's way of getting back at the rest of us since whites regularly compete at the highest levels in MMA more than boxing?

Maybe it's revenge? Interesting hypothesis. Boxing fans don't have any general love for the white fighter, that's true..... except Canelo and the Klitchkos (sp). Maybe this is poetic justice..... hmmmm.............
 
did i say there werent racist white mma fans? no. did i say some jones haters dont have other motives? no. do i think there are less racist mma fans than boxing fans? fuck yes!

My point is many MMA fans HERE always accuse people of playing the 'race card' even though threads getting deleted due to racist comments PROVE there are racists here who evidently have a problem with Black fighters because of THE RACIST COMMENTS THEY ARE MAKING. It's really as simple as that. There are posters on Sherdog who are racist and do their best to make it known in many threads about Jones, or other Black fighters. So the childish and pathetic 'race card' argument does not apply here. How about this board, SHERDOG OWN UP TO IT'S OWN PROBLEM WITH RACE, especially concerning Black fighters? If you dislike a fighter, fine, but that's no need to bring colour or race into it like this board seems to like doing. It's about owning your behaviour. Something Sherdog seems to not want to do.

As far as boxing, i'm sure there are plenty of idiot racists on boxing boards as well. I think any posters on any board with a trollish racist agenda should be banned, regardless of what colour they are. That's should be the goal, instead of targeting people who are tired of racism.
 
Ok, but Silva and Jones are still the two best p4p. But you're right, that's subjective. But true. Riddle me that. P4P can't be settled with fights anyway, since Aldo can't fight Cigano to see who's p4p better.

As for Alex, he's an absolute beast!! No two ways about it, that man's a monster. I've never seen a man stumbling like him who STILL COULD NOT be taken down or finished! The man is an absolute monster with tons of heart, no question.

But the real question is "is he too big for LHW and should he move up?" - ha, I'm kidding.

As for racial bias, minorities, especially blacks (in North America anyway) will always see this differently than whites IN GENERAL. I get that whites often sound and seem genuinely confused when racial bias is cited just as blacks often seem genuinely confused that whites can't sense it.

It's just one of those thangs we live with. In MMA, it's magnified. I am not one to claim racial basis for everything, but I'm also not one to have on rose coloured glasses and believe that racial bias doesn't inform many decisions where it shouldn't. Especially among MMA fans.

Good convo. Let's return to fighting because we won't agree on the prevalence of racism in MMA fandom.

But good convo. Not being facetious.

It is not automatically true because I do not believe that Jones would stand a chance in hell against Cain or many other HWs if he ever moved up. Until Jones can prove it these P4P discussions fall firmly in the the realm of personal opinion.

Where a friend of mine lives there have been at least three recent mob attacks by black people against innocent whites (one woman and two elderly males) within a short period of time. One of them was beaten to death. There were also two racist attacks in NYC and Harlem as well where one of those victims died too. I can provide links for each case if you do not believe me. If we are going to talk about whites supposedly not understanding racism we can easily expand the discussion in to far deeper areas. This discussion is supposed to be about professional fighting though. I agree that we should be talking about the fight and not race. I am not the one who brought it up.
 
well you used race as the reason for jon not getting credited for being a warrior...which is just completely dumb as fuck, ive never seen anyone try to say jone doesnt have heart. then you used race as the reason for jon getting criticized for being to big for lhw...which is also dumb as shit. ive seen tibau, lim, kang, lesnar, carwin, etc all get shit for being big. the reason jon catches so much shit is because he is a DOMINANT CHAMPION. people see what the wanna see, so to you you see as some racists criticism.

Look through this thread and you'll see examples of people suggesting he doesn't have heart. I haven't seen any of the other guys be the centerpiece of almost a fan campaign to force them into a higher weight class than the one they weigh in for fine every time, but you did present a list of fighters who are considered big. I can accept that as a start.

I said in an earlier post that I don't think Jones' criticism is purely race based but because he was so dominant and unapologetic. So I think we agree here 100%.

But I do believe black fighters get more scrutiny and flack on attitude and size than white fighters.

You know we can disagree on this point and still be best friends, right? I want to be your friend, but I can't help feeling that you don't want to be mine.

Big question: Is it because I'm...... black??
 
No thats some bs You haters ( im not gonna say what yall really are to avoid a race discussion ) said.

Jones does nothing fake or cocky, just like Rashad didnt do shit wrong or bad when he came to MMA but everyone and they momma had nothing but unwanted and unwarranted hate for the guy for no reason.

All yall do is play the reverse psychology game and pull the race hate silently like none is suppose to notice this shit.

see this is the racist bullshit that needs to be left at the door. im a jones fan, he's my favorite lhw, but if you cant see why he catches shit, and the only reason that you can come up with is because he's black...then your ignorance speaks for yourself
 
2w3p8b8.jpg


Just the ego.

PanteraVulgarDisplayofPower.jpg


Someone who's good with photoshop do something with this please.
 
It is not automatically true because I do not believe that Jones would stand a chance in hell against Cain or many other HWs if he ever moved up. Until Jones can prove it these P4P discussions fall firmly in the the realm of personal opinion.

Where a friend of mine lives there have been at least three recent mob attacks by black people against innocent whites (one woman and two elderly males) within a short period of time. One of them was beaten to death. There were also two racist attacks in NYC and Harlem as well where one of those victims died too. I can provide links for each case if you do not believe me. If we are going to talk about whites supposedly not understanding racism we can easily expand the discussion in to far deeper areas. This discussion is supposed to be about professional fighting though. I agree that we should be talking about the fight and not race. I am not the one who brought it up.

I can take your point about p4p because Cain might be top 2 as well. Good point. So might Barao. But in terms of wins earned, I'd go Silva and Jones. So far.

I'm sorry about any attacks on any humans that were unprovoked. I don't support mob attacks, racist or otherwise.

Please notice I'm not denying that blacks or anybody else can be racist. I was simply saying I notice that I get a lot more racial bias in MMA discussions than in regular discussions.

That's all I was saying. I never said whites were uniquely racist, or the only ones who attack other races, etc. I also mentioned Pantera fans in particular since we were already engaged in a race discussion and when I see Pantera I link it in my memory with the racists skinhead attacks in support of Pantera.

That has nothing to do with whites IN GENERAL or race IN GENERAL.

So you won't see me denying or defending black OR white racism (or any other for that matter). I just feel like there was a lot of denial of any racial motivation going on when that's simply the world we live in.

But it's whatever. Let's talk about fighting now.
 
so is that the reason Jones is cocky or fake? please explain.

I would be more than happy to explain. Of course it does not prove that Jones is necessarily either one of those things. I do not personally believe that myself. What it does show however is that people of varying racial backgrounds including black have expressed similar viewpoints about Jones. If it is only about race then why did Evans who is black reach essentially the same conclusion as some white people? Is Evans a self-loathing black man or something? Maybe Jones has indeed said and done some things which have rubbed people the wrong way? Why is that so hard to accept?
 
That might even be true. Never thought about that. Maybe this is the white racist's way of getting back at the rest of us since whites regularly compete at the highest levels in MMA more than boxing?

Maybe it's revenge? Interesting hypothesis. Boxing fans don't have any general love for the white fighter, that's true..... except Canelo and the Klitchkos (sp). Maybe this is poetic justice..... hmmmm.............

um okay another racist thing that i laugh at is whites and boxing. haha, im sorry but there are just as many white champs as black. maybe you are talking about boxing here in america, which has to do more with culture and not race.

off topic here, but how the fuck do you have anderson the #1 p4p fighter?! haha

1.jon 2.gsp 3. aldo
 
Look through this thread and you'll see examples of people suggesting he doesn't have heart. I haven't seen any of the other guys be the centerpiece of almost a fan campaign to force them into a higher weight class than the one they weigh in for fine every time, but you did present a list of fighters who are considered big. I can accept that as a start.

I said in an earlier post that I don't think Jones' criticism is purely race based but because he was so dominant and unapologetic. So I think we agree here 100%.

But I do believe black fighters get more scrutiny and flack on attitude and size than white fighters.

You know we can disagree on this point and still be best friends, right? I want to be your friend, but I can't help feeling that you don't want to be mine.

Big question: Is it because I'm...... black??

you caught me! :)
 
My point is many MMA fans HERE always accuse people of playing the 'race card' even though threads getting deleted due to racist comments PROVE there are racists here who evidently have a problem with Black fighters because of THE RACIST COMMENTS THEY ARE MAKING. It's really as simple as that. There are posters on Sherdog who are racist and do their best to make it known in many threads about Jones, or other Black fighters. So the childish and pathetic 'race card' argument does not apply here. How about this board, SHERDOG OWN UP TO IT'S OWN PROBLEM WITH RACE, especially concerning Black fighters? If you dislike a fighter, fine, but that's no need to bring colour or race into it like this board seems to like doing. It's about owning your behaviour. Something Sherdog seems to not want to do.

As far as boxing, i'm sure there are plenty of idiot racists on boxing boards as well. I think any posters on any board with a trollish racist agenda should be banned, regardless of what colour they are. That's should be the goal, instead of targeting people who are tired of racism.

Clap clap clap!!

Exactly. I was only pointing out something we could accept or deny. None of the examples of black racism that were given me provoked me to deny its existence. Or to defend or deflect. I can admit it exists and needs to die out. I can admit it and not support it.

But as you point out, MMA fans have a problem owning up to it here. Well said.
 

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