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No-gi passing problems

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by DanimalJr, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. DanimalJr

    DanimalJr White Belt

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    So my passing game with a gi on is probably one of the best parts of my game. My passing game without a gi is terrible. There is one reason for this, grips. I am usually not as strong as the other guy, but I am very good at sneaking in my grips and people have a hard time breaking them.

    However, with no-gi there is nothing to grip. People tend to just grab my wrists, pop them off of wherever they are and use them to break me down or work a sub. This leads to me trying to just battle their wrist control and maintain posture, but since they are usually stronger I don't often win. Even if they never manage to hit a sub or sweep if they maintain constant dominant wrist control I can never work any passes.

    What can I do about this? Maybe I need to go to a standing pass in no-gi? But I don't know if that will make any difference. People will still always be able to control my wrists.
     
  2. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Yeah I've been having a problem with this too. I tend to get triangled more in no-gi than in gi because I can't grip the pants to control the leg while I'm breaking closed guard.

    So for no-gi I've been working on the guard break where you post your hands in the armpits and quickly pop up to your feet and then put a knee in the butt and crouch back down, then you can do a knee-slide type pass.
     
  3. RearAndNaked

    RearAndNaked Blue Belt

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    Chimpass?
     
  4. jzpowahz

    jzpowahz White Belt

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    Subscribing
     
  5. rarmonio8920

    rarmonio8920 Purple Belt

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    Are we talking about from the closed guard?
     
  6. hakkas

    hakkas Blue Belt

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    Standing "long-range" passes are usually more difficult to perform without the grips. You always want to control the hip when you pass and when there is no fabric to grab, you have to use your own hip/shin/knee/arm to block it.

    The doubleunder pass is one example of this. You grab under the opponents legs and drags his hip upon your own hip and puts pressure on him. That way you control his hips and doesn't depend on having good grips.

    I still prefer to stand up when I pass so this is usually how I do it.

    1. Some handfighting. Don't want him to control my wrists or legs.
    2. Lift his feets up or push him in the chest in order to break his posture (getting his head behind his hip)
    3. Step in with a knee between his legs. If the right leg is leading I put my right hand on his hip and my left on his knee.

    From here I can step my right leg back and push his hip down with my right hand while blocking his right knee with my left hand. And then just walk around and pass.

    Or get an underhook with my right hand and do the diagonal kneeslide pass.

    Or snap his head down ->headlock->pass or submit

    Or force halfguard and pass from there
     
  7. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I try to force half guard or flattened butterfly. Or even the 'outside' half guard that BJ Penn likes to pass from a lot.
     
  8. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    What kind of guard are you passing? What kinds of passes are you using? In no gi you need more control of the hips and core, rather than the kinds of passes that rely on grips. Knee slide passes and underhook passes work best for me in no gi. It you're talking butterfly guard or some other guard, that changes things.
     
  9. DanimalJr

    DanimalJr White Belt

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    Yes, this is a passing the closed guard thread. With the gi on my bread and butter pass is putting the knee on the tail bone and arching back. This almost always creates space for double under pass or if their guard breaks I can go to knee slide pass either direction. If this does not work I switch to the variation where I put my right knee in the butt cheek and then step my left leg back and arch back. Usually working a combination of these two most always causes them to break open guard.

    But if someone can rip off my hands (no-gi because there is nothing to grip to stop this) and control my wrists then neither of these passes work.
     
  10. PerfectBalance

    PerfectBalance Yellow Belt

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    This is how you get it done. If they don't want to open there guard don't worry about it. Knee up the middle when they open get to half guard. Work for a underhook and baseball slide through there thigh.
     
  11. RearAndNaked

    RearAndNaked Blue Belt

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    I think that's pretty weak, without wishing to offend; if your entire game is shut down unless the guy decides to open his guard for you then perhaps you need to put a boatload of time in on opening said guard. Hell, I'd rather try something crazy and get swept/subbed/eaten alive than just sit there knowing he had to make the first move.
     
  12. DanimalJr

    DanimalJr White Belt

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    Ahh yes, the opportunistic pass. There is one guy at my gym who works this on me frequently, but the problem I have with this one is that I am not a small guy. I am pretty tall 6' 3" long legs and it takes a lot of space to get a knee in. I can't just sneak one in like a lot of smaller guys.
     
  13. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest Orange Belt

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    Knee slides are my preferred guard pass without the gi. They're much faster for me as well.
     
  14. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Well another option is to just stand up in closed guard and break the guard standing.
     
  15. PerfectBalance

    PerfectBalance Yellow Belt

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  16. Team Sleep

    Team Sleep Black Belt

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    Posture up, put your hands both down into his pelvis forcing it to the mat. hold the hips there.

    put your knee into his ass as hard as you can on the side opposite of his top foot in the closed guard. then gradually work your way back until you open the guard. now you have a few options

    you can force his leg down and put a knee over it and pass. you can throw the leg over your shoulder and stack it on his face, swim move and pass... etc.

    once there in side control if you've secured his opposite arm while passing, there are a lot of options, especially if you went with the stack. that swim move has to be hella fast or the guy on bottom hella slow, but you need to do it and do it fast or triangle city.
     
  17. HardEight

    HardEight Blue Belt

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  18. PerfectBalance

    PerfectBalance Yellow Belt

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    No the move works in no gi as well just with posture and hands on hips. I don't know much, but some people play different games. I love it when someone stands on me because I have my deep half, x guard and koala guard. I don't like to play a closed guard, so I break mine almost immediately sometimes even to half guard.
     
  19. InvertedBJJ

    InvertedBJJ Green Belt

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    In no gi, my passes usually consist of...

    different versions of the knee-slide pass
    underhook passes
    and speed pass to KOB (standing)
     
  20. pailum117

    pailum117 Blue Belt

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    A: I'll usually let them control one of my wrists then break it and trap their arm to their chest with a cross grip. If I can get this grip I'll usually press down their hips with my other arm (so they'll start looking for the scissor sweep) and then pass to the side on which I have controlled the arm with an single hook to their opposite shoulder. It does have some risk for the triangle, but if you step that side knee up it helps reduce it.

    That probably didn't make any sense...

    B: I control one of their arms on their stomach with both of my arms, press down toward their groin and pop up into base. Usually that opens them up but if not I press down on the lower leg knee with both hands, control the leg and start looking to get double unders

    C: Just work a really tight bad posture guard and press down on their hips until I can scoot back enough to break their control and slide my knee in

    D: Armpit control. My least favorite, because alot of guys work really well from the high guard.
     

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