No-gi Passing Help?

[metallifan3091]

Hey guys. Like many of you, I've been loving the BJJScout videos on Leandro Lo, especially the ones on the knee slide. It was already my best pass by far, but I've gone from hitting it with moderate consistency to using it against people that are both bigger and better than me and having great success with it, especially to shut down their DLR.

However, I'm wondering if any of you guys have tips for adapting his Toreando pass and 'Lo drag' for no-gi. I know that since he uses a push instead of a pull, you theoretically don't need pants grips to make it work, but I'm really not having much luck with it or the Mendes Bros style leg drag (which is a push/pull but should still work, I think) because I can't keep good enough control of their legs if they're playing a really active open guard.

Here are the videos in question, for those who haven't seen them or want a refresher:

http://www.bjjscout.com/

Any advice for me?

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Nice, I got no help for you but will be check-check-checking out those vids!

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Hmm...... Half way thru and I wasn't digging it as I'm more a smash pass, shoulder pressure kinda guy.

Right up till he started mentioning the posting helps him win the scrambles once the guard is compromised from the sweep attempt. Also didn't really see him finishing the pass that much with the posting hand idea, just not getting swept......

Gonna watch the second VID. First one was good with some great info.

 

[metallifan3091]

Anyone have any advice at all?

 

[BJJArsenal]

I would really struggle to hit that one handed drag in no-gi. I wouldn't bother with it. You can always hit the more traditional leg drag by placing the opposite side hand to his foot (right hand to right foot) while the other hand cups the knee and simply drags it. It can't be something easily telegraphed though or an active guard will simply recover.

If the guys open guard is too active to pass or control, then I would advise stepping into to attack their half guard or kneeling down and forcing them to play butterfly, personally.

 

[Drew Foster]

Ill get you some notes on some no gi leg drag stuff, I'm at lunch. But for now I'd say the biggest thing is to not try and actually drag their leg. Try to hold it and move yourself forward and drop into the position. Does this make sense?

Watch Rafa Mendes vs Robson Moura at adcc 2011 for a lot of good no gi leg dragging. It's on YouTube.

Ill get you some better notes soon.

 

[metallifan3091]

Thanks everybody. I have some great ideas to play with for leg drags now, which is awesome. Does anyone have some tips for Lo's push-step Toreando?

 

[BJJArsenal]

Thanks everybody. I have some great ideas to play with for leg drags now, which is awesome. Does anyone have some tips for Lo's push-step Toreando?

In no-gi I prefer Galvao's style of torreando. Far hand on far hip, near side hand in the bottom leg. Walk around, head down. You could also try the push stepping style with the Galvao grip and see how that works out for you.

 

[metallifan3091]

Thanks man. I'll check out Galvao's method of passing and give it a shot too. I think that Lo's 'neutral grip' can just be performed on the knees without the pants grip, I'm just struggling a little bit with controlling it. In all honesty though, the Toreando is not a strong pass of mine at all, so I think I probably need to work on the gi version pretty extensively and try to adapt it some as I go to suit my frame and weight.

 

[Shemhazai]

Rafa shows a shin slice vs. reverse DLR on their site that I find works very well gi and no gi. It's basically a more pressure-based variant of the X-pass (where you smash his knee toward his chest rather than try to stretch his leg) and works even if the legs are entangled, using your knee to redirect the opponent's knee right into a leg drag. It's become my main standing pass, as it is not only super effective, but sets up my other go-to passes, like the smash pass, nicely.

 

[metallifan3091]

Cool, that sounds like it'd be up my alley. Is there anywhere I can watch it aside from AoJ? I don't have a subscription currently but would like to get one.

Also, a couple more notes: I tried 'fitting in' on the leg drag instead of actually dragging, and I didn't have much luck because, despite Drew's advice, I wasn't able to pin the bottom leg down with my inside before they switched their hips, so I just ended up in half guard. It seems promising though.

I also played with the push-step Toreando and actually had quite a lot of success with that, provided that I went to KoB instead of trying for side control instead. Pushing so that you're basically stiff-arming the legs at the knee seems to work pretty well thus far, at least another blue belt of similar size and skill.

I think that if I keep repping it and the leg drag to go with my knee slice, I'll really be getting somewhere. Thanks for all of the help, and of course, feel free to continue to contribute.

 

[nijak05]

Rafa shows a shin slice vs. reverse DLR on their site that I find works very well gi and no gi. It's basically a more pressure-based variant of the X-pass (where you smash his knee toward his chest rather than try to stretch his leg) and works even if the legs are entangled, using your knee to redirect the opponent's knee right into a leg drag. It's become my main standing pass, as it is not only super effective, but sets up my other go-to passes, like the smash pass, nicely.

so many passing videos on that site now - got a link? ( i am a member btw)

 

[Shemhazai]

so many passing videos on that site now - got a link? ( i am a member btw)

They aren't totally consistent with their nomenclature, but they call it 'knee slice' in most videos. In this one, though, which is perhaps the most detailed one, they refer to it as a 'knee slide':

http://www.artofjiujitsu.com/online-training-program/video/knee-slide-pass-vs-inverted-dela-riva

For those unable to watch, it is basically this (some details added due to individual preference):

1. Force RDLR, outside hand on opp's hip/ribs/same-side collar, elbow inside to block the lasso.
2. Inside hand controls the opponent's bottom knee, pushing it towards his chest (reinforce your elbow with your hip bone and drive with your pelvis).
3. With his inside leg now unable to follow you with the RDLR hook, lift your inside leg and slide your knee across his shin.
4. As your knee cuts across, it takes over for the hand pushing his knee to his chest, which is then free to block his biceps and stretch him out as you walk sideways, using your knee to redirect his into the leg drag position.

Also, if the guy insists on extending his inside leg to follow you with the RDLR hook, refusing to let you bring his bottom knee to his chest, he opens himself to the smash pass instead (the extended lever of his leg makes it easy to redirect his knees), or even the over-under pass.

 

[BJJArsenal]

I know the pass Shem, it's easily my no.1 RDLR pass.