No gi guard passing philosophy

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by snakeybizz, May 16, 2014.

  1. snakeybizz

    snakeybizz Purple Belt

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    I want to spend the next couple of months purely on guard passing during training, recently during sparring I have been attempting to pass a guard then getting back into guard to pass again without going for subs as guard passing is definitely a weak point for me and as a stocky top player this should be my bread and butter right?

    So I was just wondering some philosophies/strategies/tactics rather then specific techniques. For example am I supposed to stick to the other guy after I have broken his closed guard or do I disengage by physically moving back then trying to go under, over or around his legs. I only have success with the double under and just the one under hook which are both pretty similar I either grab there shoulder and put pressure on so that the guard pass finishes itself or If its the double under I will flip them into a turtle position and go from there if they are not too heavy that is.

    But yeah in short do you have a any tips I can think about for the next couple of months, should I be on my knees?, more mobile? smother the guy? etc.

    Cheers!
     
  2. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Honestly, there aren't a lot of hard and fast rules. You said nogi passing in the title, so obviously you can't use grips to pass. In general, passing cleanly in nogi can be more difficult due to how easily you can both move, as well as the sweat, and the lack of grips to control them. You're probably going to find yourself with a lot of opportunities to attack the neck or take the back, in transitions, as you're passing.

    You're gonna have to figure some things out that work best for you, and different people have different strategies. Both knees tends to be very solid, but less mobile. Both feet is very "popular" at the moment, and gives a lot of mobility, and one knee up/one knee down gives a good mix.

    Personally, my nogi guard passing game is very focused around the cross knee cut pass, and head-hunting for darce/brabo chokes, guillotines, etc, or spinning around the head to take the back with the seatbelt grip. My other main focus is attacking the leg drag pass and attacking the back, or going for arm triangles or north south chokes, and kimura grip attacks if I can't get the back.

    But none of that is set in stone, and again, that's what's worked for my personal skills, attributes, and what has come to be most comfortable for me. I wouldn't say that's an ideal game. I realize I might be giving you kind of a non-answer, but if you're having some success already, I would continue to sharpen those skills.

    One thing that I've heard various advice about, would be how you said you're going back into guard on purpose. I would personally focus on passing, and finishing, or mounting/attacking the back and finishing. It may seem like not a big deal, but if you even develop a little bit of muscle memory for letting people re-guard on you, that might come back when you don't want it to. I would just push hard to improve position and/or finish, and then you can re-start, and you'll have another chance to pass the guard soon enough.

    Take it for what it's worth man. Have fun!
     
  3. snakeybizz

    snakeybizz Purple Belt

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    I thought that was a great answer tbh! I guess I will just experiment with what works for my particular set of skills and physical attributes.

    Thats a good point you make with regards to me letting people re-guard. My logic was that in doing so I could then work on my guard passing straight away after a successful pass make it more time efficient but I guess that could lead to bad habits in the future and I suppose I could get the repetition I'm looking for when drilling.

    Cheers.
     
  4. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Thanks man!

    And I agree. You can always do some positional rolling/drilling where you start in their guard, or you can grab a friend or 2 and train from there after or before class.

    You'll definitely get a ton of mat time passing the guard, and I think you'll be really well served by passing and finishing. I'm glad you thought the advice was okay. I'm sure some other people will jump in here.
     
  5. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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  6. Kozbot

    Kozbot Purple Belt

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    They are gonna slip out way more in no gi so get good at front headlock/taking the back
     
  7. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Most successful no gi passes will come by way of half guard in some manner, either overtly forcing it or using a knee-cut or windshield-wiper pass. Leg drags and smash passes work in conjunction with the aforementioned. Also, you should be using your forehead as an additional limb – head position is much more important when you don't have gi grips. (Though it's always important.)

    I think that in no gi, if you really want a clean pass, the near side underhook (reverse esgrima) approach might be the most secure. In any event, you want a pass that really takes the hips and shoulders out of alignment and immobilizes the opponent. Having the option of going straight to mount will also help keep the opponent down if that's the goal.

    That being said, passes that allow for some scrambling will give you openings for subs if you have the tools necessary to capitalize on the opponent's exposure. Any time you can lock some kind of head & arm control (or Kimura grip), you're doing well for yourself.
     
  8. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    I have problems with kneeslides since I have no collar to anchor myself. I can't get a deep underhook without risking my opponent getting his legs in deep enough to threaten an Americana or a wing sweep.

    Any advice?
     
  9. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Have you seen Ryan Hall's Guard Passing DVD set? He simply posts his hand on the ribs (elbow inside, blocking the lasso) and jams his forehead under the opponent's chin, stretching him out for the pass. As the opponent uses his far hand to push the head to the inside, the underhook opens up.

    I've started using this variation myself, and it's brutally effective. Even if he never pushes my head, I'll just pass without the underhook, using only my forehead to block him off, eventually sliding my head to the far side to finalize the pass.
     
  10. Linthec

    Linthec Orange Belt

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    I agree with the point that said "don't go back in the guard". What makes you want to do this? I know you want to get more time in trying to pass... well if that's the case then don't hold the guy after you pass. Just attack a submission immediately. It either works and you start over, or it doesn't and you start over. Don't lose the opportunity to work your submissions as well. You might figure out ways to pass straight into a finish.

    Now if that is going to be your goal, I would say it would do you good to get up on your toes and use a lot of forward pressure so you can make the transition quickly once you get the pass. And for every pass always have a double attack. Don't ever totally reset when one pass fails. Just keep chaining and transitioning and attacking, but controlled of course. Pressure over speed. That's my 2 cents.
     
  11. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Interesting. I'm a decent guard passer but I almost never put myself in a situation where I'm putting my head into my opponents chin.

    That might open stuff up for me. Thanks!
     
  12. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    I knee cut wide with the plan of ending up in front headlock and going from there
     
  13. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Nogi, i usually use a whizzer for the knee slide, if they come up with a single ill either uchimata or haraigoshi them back down Tim Boetsch style.
     
  14. snakeybizz

    snakeybizz Purple Belt

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  15. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    You can use the Kimura grip from pretty much anywhere if you know how to control it well. I've even seen Jean Jacques Machado teach a diving Kimura setup vs. the closed guard. (Kind of a tricky one, obviously.) Any time you can lock up that grip, you just need to clear whatever leg entanglement the opponent has, and you're basically free to roll around chasing the back/armlock/crucifix.
     
  16. Chute Stomp

    Chute Stomp Brown Belt

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    Galvao using rolling Kimura to back against Rodolfo:

    [YT]OiwK6Gc-53U[/YT]
     

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