Nitrous Information and Product Review:

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Sinister, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Alright. I promised two new threads, here is one of them. This one is about the much debated topic of Nitrous boosters/NO2 for the people who know it best associated with that particular supplement made by Medical Research Institute. Now, it's always been my contention that NO2 boosters work, why? Because I've tried a couple of them and they did what they were supposed to do. However there's been much debate on the subject. Whenever there is this much debate I always question both sides. Obviously the manufacturers/supporters of Nitrous may be doing so for monetary purposes, or defending simple placebo-effect. Yet on the flipside, the detractors of this supplement may only be doing so to defend mis-use of the supplement and scapegoating the makers of it for their own irresponsibility. So I decided to keep an eye out for any writings on the subject (like with Aspartame), and here is some information I found. This comes from a man named Hany Rambod, nicknamed "The Pro Creator", as he is the Dietician for many many athletes including numerous Pro Bodybuilders, Ronnie Coleman himself being one of his clients, as well as Lee Priest and Chris Cormier. Guys who have been known to improve their conditioning in recent years.

    Hany contends that to maximize muscle mass one of the tactics to making muscle grow is to volumize it with more blood to stretch the fascia tissue that surrounds the muscle (fascia are connective tissue). This stretching is what will allow muscle bellies to actually grow and create a more rounded look to your muscles. This is accomplished by doing two things to sustain better pump during workouts. One is high volume high repetition training, and the other is supplementation designed to give a longer-lasting and more dramatic pump. This coming from the vaso-dilating effects of the Nitrous supplements.

    However, much to my delight, Hany names some of the common mistakes people typically make that inhibits their response to Nitrous Products:

    1) Taking them on a full stomach. If you've eaten food, particularly with protein or fat within an hour of taking a Nitrous Product the food will inhibit the absorption and down-regulate it's effects.

    2) Taking caffeine or ephedra products with the Nitrous Products. These stimulants have vaso-constrictive effects, and will defeat the purpose for trying to force more blood into the muscle to get the better pump.

    I'm willing to wager that most of the detraction of Nitrous Products has come from irresponsible use as opposed to the Products just being "bullshit." Because the one thing that defeats most athletes who are not competing is inconsistency. So before you go spouting off that you "tried" something, and it "didn't work", be sure you can say you used it properly. However, to side with the detractors for a moment. I'm beginning to see a growing trend in American society that the general public thinks the more money you spend the better shape you'll be in for vanity purposes. This is not altogether necessary. So nowadays when people ask me about expensive supplements like Nitrous Boosters, Test Boosters, or things like GAKIC, I am finding myself saying that if you're not doing anything that's going to make you the money you spend on it back, then it's not necessary to spend close to $100 for a bottle of ANYTHING. You can get vanity results through less expensive means and get better use out of using the basics.

    Now, onto my Product Review:

    This is going to be on-going. Initially I had quit taking NO2. I loved the supplement but two things stood in the way. One is budget, second is I have a genetic tendency to respond well to supplements like this and begin to grow not just in appearance of muscularity, but actual size. And one thing about Nitrous Products is they open up your appetite like crazy. But since I tightened up on my eating more and I got a hold of a free tub of No-Xplode, I thought I'd give it a shot.

    Man is this shit ever nasty! It's not so bad the first couple of sips, and you think "this isn't so bad"...that's only because you've just had a bit of it. The more you drink, the more you want to chuck it back up. But it is working pretty well. I was already starting to get veiny because of losing a lot of bodyfat, but this stuff is giving the pump-effect pretty nicely after only 4 days of continued use. I also find myself more energetic during the workouts. More to come as things progress...
     
  2. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    I've often been aggrevated at products using Arginine and caffeine in the same formula.

    KK-

    Tell us about AAKG and L-Arginine differences and benifits of one over the other.
     
  3. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Well to my knowledge the AAKG forms of anything are simply better-assimilated. But Argining AKG is nothing new. It's more potent, thus you get more use per dose. L-Arginine you'd need to take about a half a bottle at a time to accomplish what the Nitrous Boosters use, unless you get L-Arginine, L-Ornithine in a combination, and even then you still need higher doses, about 10 pills per day.

    Then you have that pesky little thing about Nitrogen balance. Which reminds me, a good tip for anyone taking a Nitrous booster is to take Lysine along with it. One of the side-effects from excess Nitrous Boosting is cold-sores due to poor nitrogen balance. Taking Lysine will prevent this.
     
  4. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    Would you use more of the "Nitrous Booster" than is directed or the amount directed?

    For different weights?
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Hmm, good question. On the bottles of NO2 there is a weight difference. Over 200lbs are supposed to use 10 pills rather than 8. So perhaps in the powdered supplements I would use an extra half a scoop if you're a big sumbitch like Madmick.
     
  6. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    I'm a big sumbitch too.
     
  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You're bigger than me. But Mick is like 250 and I think he's got the height on you, too.

    You = Mick's Prison bitch. lol

    Nah, in all seriousness, for your case with as hard as you train you could most likely do well with going with the higher dose. The No-Xplode bottle I have says to use 2-3 scoops, for your case I'd use 3. Just be sure and take a 1000mg Lysine whenever you take your multi for the Nitrogen balance.

    Speaking of your training why isn't your log updated Sir?
     
  8. fat_wilhelm

    fat_wilhelm Black Belt

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    From the NO-Xplode cannister...

    Taking a product that contains ephedrine will also diminish the effects of NO-XPLODE.

    This jives w/ your post.

    And from the Q&A section on BSN's site...

    Q: How much caffeine is in NO-Xplode?

    A: Approximately 100 mg per scoop (about 1 cup of coffee, depending).


    This would not add up w/ mistake #2. Hmmmm -- I'm wondering if BSN feels that there is not enough of an inhibiting factor from caffeine, as opposed to ephedrine, to leave out a stimulant of some sort.

    Incidentally, I've been using NO-Xplode along w/ Cellmass for a few months now, and I really like them both. I, too, read a lot of the stuff saying that NO2 is useless, but like Kabuki, I know what my body responds to and I use that response as the most important analysis of whether I feel something is worth taking.

    A side note on dosage: I'm 6'-0", about 209 lbs. and only take one scoop before my workout, despite the 2-3 scoop recommendation. I feel like this has worked very well for me. More may work even better, but I, personally, will stick w/ this because a) 2-3 cups of coffee in one serving would make me WAY too jittery and b) I'm a firm believer that manufacturers want you to finish your cannister of whatever-it-is as quickly as possible so you'll come back to buy more, thus, they recommend the max they can get away with.

    Kabuki, what flavor do you have? I've got the Fruit Punch and I don't find it offensive at all. Certainly, it wouldn't be the first drink I choose for the sake of having a drink, but it goes down pretty easy for me.

    Finally, I've posted this before in other threads. After researching the crap out of it, I've found Mass Nutrition to have the best prices on BSN supps. by quite a bit.

    http://www.massnutrition.com/categories.cfm?cur_man=BSN
     
  9. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    My lid blew off when I shook it up. Shit went everywhere.
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I think it's more about the numbers. The methylxanthines that make up the Caffeine in No-Xplode are specifically balanced to the rest of the formula, and I don't think they have the vaso-constricting properties that other caffeine sources have. Adding to that with extra high-caffeine supplements or Ephedra-based supplements would send it out of balance.

    And I have the Fruit Punch, too. And the first couple of sips are alright, but down to the bottom it's pretty painful, just too artificial for my liking.
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Is that your excuse for why your log isn't updated?

    Booooo.
     
  12. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    I've just have been lazy with the log.

    Workouts are fine, thanks for asking. I may update tonite.
     
  13. tshay2003

    tshay2003 Guest

    First off.. awesome thread. I love threads like these.. lots of learning material. Now a couple questions..

    Trying to learn a thing or two here: So NO2 expands arteries allowing more blood to your muscles. Now is it more blood in general in your muscles that benefits, or is it the excess nitrous.. or maybe even oxygen to your muscles? I understand the fact about blood expanding the muscle filaments so that they (i'm assuming here) stay anabolic and rebuild in an expanded state. Now, here is the big question i was getting to, and i don't want to sway topic here, but is that kind of the same as creatine causing water retention in muscles? A swelling effect so to speak...

    AAHH, the other question i almost forgot. Why do they recommend keeping Glutamine supplementation under 10 grams per day. Now i've always thought 10 grams was quite a bit unless you are in some serious bodybuilding training, but maybe i'm wrong. Does Glutamine interfere with Arginine somehow?
     
  14. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    The difference between creatine and arginine is that with Creatine you're only getting a water-pump with minimal vasodilation. With the Nitrous you're getting more actual bloodflow into your muscles, which also means that everything in your bloodstream is duly fed into muscle tissue. Creatine works on the premise mostly of hydration, which promotes oxygenation, but you're missing the Nitrogen.

    About glutamine, I'm not positive. But it's not uncommon for isolated aminos to compete for absorption in the body. It might have something to do with that. Also some aminos when taken in excess will negate the properties of other aminos. This is why you take Nitrous Boosters, and also BCAA's always on an empty stomach.
     
  15. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    Should you take it on all training days, or just days using high volume work. Is it beneficial to take it when say, powerlifting or 3 rep snatches or just bodybuilding type workouts?

    Should you take it even when not training...off day?
     
  16. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    They recommend you half-dose on non-training days. But with a supplement this expensive I tend not to use it on non-training days. The effects are supposed to be longer-sustaining than creatine, so I don't see a need to take it on off-days. In terms of the workouts, I think it benefits any kind of workout.
     
  17. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I agree with Hany's contention of what vasodilation would achieve, but this doesn't address Terumo's objection, since because (according to Terumo) the conversion agent isn't amplified, the increase of arginine in the bloodstream will not result in vasodilation.

    If NO products do indeed cause vasodilation, I'm on board. Hell, I used them, and I thought they worked, but I don't trust my own mind. My mind deceives me all the time. Told me that one bitch loved me, I'm still pissed about that, aren't I mind? Yeah, I'm talking to you fuckwad, Mr. You and Mr. Dick need to have a discussion about priorities. We miss that loveless pussy, don't we? Oh, we do, my precious, we do.

    Was this covered in the other thread? I don't see it. Okay, I'll check again.

    Also, I don't want to go to prison or fight Chad.
     
  18. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    In all seriousness Mick, I don't think the FDA as hard-ass as it is on the supplement Industry would allow MRI to market NO2 particularly with "Hemodilator" written right on the bottle if they didn't give credible evidence that it did indeed serve the purpose it's intended to. I mean this is the same organization that pulls supplements off the shelf for even HINTING that they can do anything to combat any specific illness or cause any benefitial improvements to people.

    However, Hany went on to say that No-Xplode itself, along with Superpump are two reputable Nitrous boosters and that he recommends them to all of his clients. I just didn't want to quote that part because it sounds a lot like a sales-pitch. Out of all the nitrous boosters out there right now I'm only sold on 2 of them. NO2 is one, No-Xplode is the other, because I've used them both properly and they both worked for me, that and good feedback.

    Though I will say one thing again regarding cost. MRI charges WAY too much for time-released versions of regular supplements. Seems to me there's got to be a less-costly way, but then again my mind deceives me too at times.
     
  19. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Check you bottle Kabuki. I remember NO-Xplode containing the disclaimer that "These claims are not evaluated by the FDA..."

    I know they changed the laws a bit recently on herbs, but I think that was only for safety disclaimers (to avoid future fiascos like the ephedra ban that resulted because of stupid, stupid fucking people). I still see all sorts of claims on the herbs that have been proven not to work.

    Terumo's post was concrete on a biochemical level. I'm putting a lot of faith in someone who I don't actually know (it's not like I met him at the NYU Chemistry Department), but until I see something that addresses his very simple and very specific argument, I will continue to advise against NO.

    We need to get him back. Dammit.
     
  20. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    Ok, with school starting and being busy, I have come down to skimming long threads like this. So, I apologize if this isn't relevant or has already been discussed.

    I don't have a large contribution, but I disagree with one of the statements above.
    When working at GNC I was asked by many people why caffeine was recommended for exercise when it is a vasoconstrictor. Well, I finally found an answer when i got sick of saying "Uh.. dunno."

    Stimulants such as adrenaline (epi/norepi) are produced when you exercise and they effect different parts of the body differently. They vasoconstrict certain veins/arteries (such as digestive, in the brain [be brain gets vasoconstricted because the brain needs a constant blood flow and with increased heart rate you need to vasoconstrict to get the same amount of net blood flow]), and other vasodialate (such as the muscles in use).

    So, what does all this crap mean? Caffeine does vasoconstrict certain artieries/veins, as in the brain and digestive tract (why you don't get hungry), but it VASODIALATES ateries to muscles similarly as epi/norepi.

    So, caffeine should increase blood flow to muscles. I know saying one thing this guy has said is wrong doesn't take apart his whole argument; but IMO this isn't a complicated topic for someone who works with professional BB's. I get concered about the whole argument when someone uses info like this for a product. This and Tumero's statements make me concered about the efficacy of these products.
     

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