Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Christian Medina, Aug 11, 2010.
From earlier this year:
Same counter in the semis:
I need to learn this.
that is pretty sweet! I'm used to seeing the standard pick up counter. He get's the far elbow grip before his opponent can set up, it looks like.
Anyone know the name of this counter?
There has been a bit of debate over this counter to uchi mata. There's an older video of the same counter being used and it was debated for a good amount of time. In my opinion, if I had to put a name on it, I would probably call it sumi otoshi.
Notice Camilo's right hand at the beginning of the uchi mata. We use this same hand placement when utilizing a duck-under in an effort to prevent this exact kind of counter. The right hand switches from a lapel grip to the outside of the opponent left elbow.
This counter happens because Camilo's opponent's fail to establish a strong sleeve grip. In the first video, you can see his opponent's grip is extremely high, near the armpit. This allows virtually zero control of Camilo's arm.
It's tough to see in the second video... but I will say that it makes me weep to see that "throw" awarded ippon.
The Israeli guy did this to Craig Fallon at the 2008 Olympics in the semi-finals. Seems like you just ride out the leg with your hip, but I don't see that happening with a fast, explosive Uchi-Mata.
The key is the position of Camilo's hand on his opponent's left elbow. Explosive or not, with this kind of control his opponent is unable to properly rotate to complete the throw. It's less about the legs and more about the hands... which is why I labeled it as sumi otoshi.
I've learned this one. It can be risky, so best to avoid doing this "on purpose" - only use it when the opponent's uchi-mata is already "in".
You have to "twist" the opponent to rotate them. You pull their sleeve in close to your body and your other hand drives their head/shoulder down. You then have to hop/drive them to their weak balance point (ie not forward, more sideways)
I guess it's similar to that, but sukashi is the same movement as sumi otoshi but this counter isn't sukashi. I don't know, it's not in the gokyo and I never learned it just see it in tournaments.
Why was the one he did in the semis considered ippon?
Do you watch a lot of modern judo? The Olympics have become, dare I say, atrocious.
That type of reffing has seeped into even the lower levels of competition as well. I would hit a drop seoi and roll my opponent over for ippon that I personally never would have called [but was more than happy to take in the competition].
Sukashi means to avoid or evade, which is really the only reason I don't label it as sukashi. He clearly does not avoid the technique.
Dailymotion - Uchi mata sukashi - une vidéo Sports et Extrême
That is a perfect example of uchi mata sukashi. I wouldn't bust anyone's balls for calling the original counter uchi mata sukashi, but for me, the initial avoidance is really what separates the two.
In the end, it doesn't really matter what it's called. There's no real need to name every variation of every technique. Whatever it is, it's not cut and dry... it IS a nice counter, however.
I watch some here and there. The rules and practices change so fast I can't keep up, though. I hadn't seen a particular example of an ippon like this one, though. Guess I'll understand the pattern as I see more of this.
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