Ngannou's return could signal Dana's exit

[Lycandroid]

If Jon Jones retires Ngannou vs Aspinall is the only big fight that can be made in the division

 

[Tweak896]

Crazy how PFL signed Ngannou in May 2023 and has only got 1 fight from him with nothing up ahead after over 2 years. All they do is yap about co-promotion with UFC, but lose their ass on the PPV with Ngannou.

UFC would be smart to let PFL just tank themselves with the contract they signed with Ngannou. It's literally helping kill competition by doing nothing. Who knows how much that's worth, but might be as much as the profit Ngannou would make UFC if he was a free agent and they signed him. I honestly think Ngannou's knees are shot and he's not going to do mma for more than once a year now.

 

[HockeyBjj]

PFL can no longer afford to pay Francis Ngannou

Love that Francis got out of the UFC and got his bag boxing Fury and Joshua, but PFL was never going to be able to actually pay him the contract they signed together

 

[volcom5]

Usually crowdsourcing is pretty effective.

If we could manage an MMA organization and make moves based on forums votes, I think we'd do a better job. But it's difficult to succeed in MMA when the UFC monopolizes most of the talent and prospects.

Calling the UFC a monopoly is murky, there is PFL, Bellator, Oktagon, KSW, Rizen, OneFC there’s countless orgs for fighters to make money. The UFC is the only one afloat because they run it like business, other orgs run it like a charity.

In the ends incompetent owners & the so called fans that are really making these other orgs go under by not supporting them and only using them as an avatar to hate on the UFC.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Calling the UFC a monopoly is murky, there is PFL, Bellator, Oktagon, KSW, Rizen, OneFC there’s countless orgs for fighters to make money. The UFC is the only one afloat because they run it like business, other orgs run it like a charity.

In the ends incompetent owners & the so called fans that are really making these other orgs go under by not supporting them and only using them as an avatar to hate on the UFC.

The government has gone after monopolies before. The US government went after Microsoft for being a monopoly and trying to effectively ban other web browsers from being used in windows.

There were other operating systems (i.e. other MMA organizations), but none of them were as good or as ubiquitous as windows. The government deemed this a monopoly. Hell they did this with BOXING. That's why the Ali Act exists, to prevent promoters from monopolizing talent and to ensure the "best fight the best".

MMA is currently regulated at the state level, so I don't see the Federal Government getting involved any time soon. MMA would, at the very least, need to surpass boxing. And MMA is still a niche sport IMO.

 

[xhaydenx]

If Frank comes back it's going to be on UFC's terms, not his. They're not going to give him the big paydays he wanted or allow him to go and box.

Frank won't really have any option. PFL have nothing for him and there's no other orgs that can pay him a fraction of what the UFC will offer him. More boxing is an option, but he's pay days are going to be less than those first two, and only going to get worse once he likely loses again. The only way he's making big money there is if he fights the big names, and those guys will likely KO him.

So he has little options at this point if he wants big fights. PFL doesn't have the roster to give him big fights. They're losing all their better talent at a very high rate, so clearly they're not going to have the money either.

And Dana isn't going to say no to him coming back or have any problem with it. The dude is a businessman. If he can get Frank back for a low price and have the big fight between him and Jon or Tom, he won't hesitate.

 

[bigfootsbreath]

But, but, but PFL will have events all over Africa. Imagine how much money they will make in Zambia, Rwanda and South Sudan

We all know them africans aren't scared to spend they monei.

 

[Rhood]

I'd wager that Francis fights Deontay Wilder before he ever steps foot again in the UFC.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Dana ain't going fucking nowhere at this point. Campbell is running the show with Dana's input. He's the figurehead. They'll bring Ngannou back if the money makes sense.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Love that Francis got out of the UFC and got his bag boxing Fury and Joshua, but PFL was never going to be able to actually pay him the contract they signed together

I don't know if this number was true, but I remember a lot of media were reporting Ngannou vs Ferreira PPV buys could have been as low as 10,000.

Imagine signing Ngannou to multiple millions of dollars per fight and selling 10k PPVs.

 

[Aurelian]

If Dana steps down, it's not going to be to bring back a 40 year old who has maybe 2 fights left max in the tank.

 

[PaulieVegas27]

We can only hope. For both. Francis' return and Dana's exit.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Dana ain't going fucking nowhere at this point. Campbell is running the show with Dana's input. He's the figurehead. They'll bring Ngannou back if the money makes sense.

I don't disagree that Dana isn't going anywhere (for now).

But if Ngannou does come back, it will be in direct opposition of Dana's wishes. And that will mean Dana's decline of control has officially begun. He won't be gone overnight, but eventually he will fade out of the picture.

Unless PFL bites the bullet and comes up with millions to do another Ngannou fight and sell well under 100k PPV buys, basically burning money, I actually do believe Ngannou will return to the UFC. PFL needs to offload him to the UFC, and that could be done with a fighter trade, like when the UFC traded Demetrious Johnson for Ben Askren.

 

[Aurelian]

I don't know if this number was true, but I remember a lot of media were reporting Ngannou vs Ferreira PPV buys could have been as low as 10,000.

Imagine signing Ngannou to multiple millions of dollars per fight and selling 10k PPVs.

Imagine signing Ngannou to multiple millions of dollars per fight when there was no other competition to sign him.

 

[Human Bass]

We all know them africans aren't scared to spend they monei.

Well, in the case of Zimbabwe dollars, the crazy thing would be to keep the money.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

That's why the Ali Act exists, to prevent promoters from monopolizing talent and to ensure the "best fight the best".

MMA is currently regulated at the state level, so I don't see the Federal Government getting involved any time soon. MMA would, at the very least, need to surpass boxing. And MMA is still a niche sport IMO.

I made a post concerning fighter pay, unionization, and why the Ali Act would be useless for the most part the other day.

They really don't and it really doesn't. They couldn't give a shit about the opinions of a karate forum when it comes to fighter pay, they care about our opinions for market research and pay-less data analytics.


You're maybe taking it a little too serious.


Buddy, I don't know if you're aware, but there is a vast swath of trades, if not the majority taking in third world safety regulations into account, which are infinitely more dangerous/life threatening on a daily basis than being an MMA fighter.


I don't know about those numbers.


Speak with tradesmen. The vast majority have chronic pain issues lmao. How many MMA fighters do you know who have lost a limb in the sport? Thankfully, the number of permanent disabilities has been very low over the organized history of the sport. $80k a year is, yes, probably about average.

Also, there are plenty of fights who fight much longer than 3 years my friend. Now you're sounding like Dana with a "3 year opportunity." Average guys probably fight 10 years if they're dedicated to the sport. Jim Miller is entering his 20th year, an anomaly on the high end, while of course there are some that fight once and never again. Wide range.


I am very well aware of that, I'm part of the minority that thinks the top end athletes like illiterate Floyd making billions has actively ruined the fans' and fighters' perceptions and understandings about economics.
If the average no-name guy is making $60k a fight, fighting 3 times a year, $180k before taxes is more than fair in my opinion for an average guy, even if that isn't a popular opinion here. Again, I'll reiterate that I think the $12k shit is criminal, but I don't think every jobber deserves millions either. There is a realistic middle ground that no one seemingly wants to discuss or has an actual opinion on what that number is. Their expenses when it comes to gyms, coaches, management are on them, their bills just like yours are yours and mine are mine.


Yes, that's why I think the trades are much more fair comparison.


Yes, this is why I think that the incessant bitching is useless and realistic discussions with realistic, valid points should be made instead of "muh Daner plays ferkin blackjack instead of giving X moar money"

1. Just like the athletes NBA, NHL, MLB, or other major sports where the profit split is closer to 50/50 across all of them compared to the UFC's 80/20 split, the only way the fighters will get to those numbers is the same way all of those other athletes did which is Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBA) and/or unionization. A union is impossible under the current monopsony, which can only be fixed by

2. A somehow secretive agreement between a majority of paid fighters being able to come together and form a secret union. Basically impossible. Even if the UFC was open to antitrust lawsuits by becoming the only MMA promotion in the world, it still wouldn't be a league since there aren't teams and shit.

3. The Ali Act wouldn't even help, which is many peoples favorite bandaid, though it would help somewhat in transparency. Ali Act is toothless, no one has ever been prosecuted under it, and DOJ gives less than a shit about it.

A solution will only come from a whirlwind of events which all line up together including fighter unionization, antitrust rulings, and/or a competing promotion actually being halfway competent for once and being able to actually offer competitive pay.

Whining on a karate forum won't change it, even if I agree with the overall sentiment.

 

[PeterGriffin]

Why should I give a shit about how much Frank made, got paid, or whether or not it was a poor decision on PFL's part?

I got to see Big Frank live out his dream losing twice in a sport he had no business being in and got paid well twice for it. He won another HW MMA title. The only thing that matters is the fight, and I'd rather see one, than not.

Dana should have just let Francis box and taken his cut just like he did with Conor. Instead we got a 4-5 year period in the modern MMA era that wasted prime years of the top HW's.

Dana put aside beefs with Tito and Randy, and Dan'a greedy as fuck. If the numbers work, even if you had to take a one-off bath on a single event... make it happen.

With Jon outgoing, Tom's already ran a train on the current top-10 and will be cycling opponents once the division starts rolling normally. The UFC's going to have to bring in talent anyways. I hope Tom goes on a 4 or 5 year reign fighting the best contenders. Imagine what a blessing that will feel like.

I am all for Francis coming back. I mean, the possiblity of a HW title fight between two legitimate top HW's is a thrilling prospect. If only the UFC could get their shit together instead of acting like rank amateurs.

 

[HockeyBjj]

I don't know if this number was true, but I remember a lot of media were reporting Ngannou vs Ferreira PPV buys could have been as low as 10,000.

Imagine signing Ngannou to multiple millions of dollars per fight and selling 10k PPVs.

Ppv model is so dead

 

[HHJ]

Lol dana ain't losing his position over Francis.

 

[ocfightfan]

UFC is told 'PFL can't afford' not to negotiate Francis Ngannou's return amid Jon Jones talk

According to an ex-Bellator figure, the PFL would have to entertain a trade with the UFC...

bloodyelbow.com

I've seen multiple articles like this lately, saying that PFL can no longer afford to pay Francis Ngannou and that his PPV against Ferreira flopped. I'm a big believer of "where there's smoke, there's fire".

But we all know Dana would never bring Ngannou back willingly. Dana holds grudges, and he has a big grudge with Big Frank. With that said, I actually do believe that Ngannou will come back to the UFC. Jones vs Aspinall aside, who else is there for Jones or Aspinall to fight at heavyweight? Aspinall could fight Gane, but that fight almost seems like a forgone conclusion. Gane can't wrestle, and the moment Aspinall knocks him down, he will get swarmed and finished. Assuming Jones retires and Aspinall beats Gane, there's really no one left at heavyweight to threaten Tom Aspinall.

This is where I think Dana White is going to be shoved aside from calling the shots with the UFC. He's so distracted lately with Slapshit and TKO Boxing that he's almost asleep at the wheel. Gone is the fiery Dana White that was willing to rip GSP apart for daring to retire. Now Pink Goof has no clue what Jon Jones is saying to the media, even daring to claim "it's none of [his] business" if Jon says he will vacate the belt... as if he wasn't CEO of the UFC.

I strongly suspect Dana will remain as UFC CEO, as a figurehead, but will be pushed aside in terms of decision making. If this is true, then we might see Francis Ngannou return to the UFC in a fighter trade with PFL (no way the UFC agrees to co-promote when PFL is desperate to offload Ngannou).

The only thing that will cause Dana to step aside is when the Grim Reaper comes calling. Of course that could come sooner rather than later with his insane schedule and likely stress levels.

But I'm not surprised in the least to hear that the PFL can't afford Ngannou. He is a big strong modestly skilled hoss and about as charismatic bag of dry cement. Under those conditions the contract was literally insane if the PFL wants to continue as a viable business.

Good for him that he got his freedom and a big contract and two big opportunities in boxing. The problem is that he doesn't have the boxing skills to make things interesting at the highest levels and he doesn't have the mic skills to talk them into the building. He was a novelty act that made the most of Tyson Fury taking the night off but then got exposed badly by Anthony Joshua in the next go round.

So the terms he managed to get were ridiculous because he was never going to generate enough box office to justify them.

It's true that Dana holds grudges, but at the end of the day he does whatever he thinks will benefit the UFC. I don't think bringing Francis back will cause him to leave, but he has to wonder is bringing him back is worth it. The guy is difficult to deal with, way past being a spring chicken, and has really damaged his aura by getting wrecked in boxing. If he comes from that and trounces a bunch of UFC HW's it really discredits them.