Social NFL to vote on giving draft pick priority to teams with coaches who are not white

Improve a team's draft position if it hires a person of color as head coach or general manager


  • Total voters
    144
  • Poll closed .
Let me write this out as a syllogism.

P1 Discrimination is treating a person a certain way based on some criteria
P2 When the criterion is race, it's racial discrimination
P3 Prohibiting people from joining a group based on their race is treating people a certain way based on their race
P4 Prohibiting people from joining a group based on their race is racial discrimination
P5 If something is categorically illegal it is illegal without exceptions
P6 Per P4 if racial discrimination were categorically illegal, then prohibiting people from joining a group based on their race would be illegal
P7 Prohibiting people from joining a group based on their race is not always illegal
P8 If prohibiting people from joining a group is not always illegal, then racial discrimination is not categorically illegal
He's not getting into the SC rulings on Affirmative Action that guide a lot of this non-sense. It boils down to government (and societal, basically) interest in diversity. They have found you can discriminate against whites (a couple college admissions cases) because there is a huge interest in "diversity." I think a new case needs to amend the current standards and tests. Whites are the world minority, and based on the one drop rule, if you follow that, are shrinking the fastest. We are the minority, and delusional leftists who want to feign superiority through righteousness are lying to themselves at least as much as they are lying to everybody else.

EDIT: White people are the world minority, not majority.
 
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I deny that it has anything to do with the subject of the legality of discrimination based on race as applied to bonafide private organizations in the U.S. Which is what we were discussing.

In the abstract...who cares? We were discussing legality in the U.S.

Regardless, I gave you a complete response when you first wrote it. I've given you Supreme Court quote to the relevant subject. I've informed you about the legal right of association. At some point, you have to address those things, instead of ignoring them.

It seems to me the syllogism refutes your claim that racial discrimination in the US is categorically illegal. For you to deny that the syllogism is relevant, when the syllogism seems to refute what you've claimed, is nothing short of a cop-out.

Anyway, regarding that Supreme Court case, you said:

EDIT: Here's what the SCOTUS said on the subject
That is not to say that an expressive association can erect a shield against antidiscrimination laws simply by asserting that mere acceptance of a member from a particular group would impair its message.

First, if you're going to quote a Supreme Court ruling, you should provide the name of the case. Are you quoting the Supreme Court opinion in Roberts v United States Jaycees? Because if so, the statement you ascribe to the SCOTUS is nowhere in the text:

https://casetext.com/case/roberts-v-united-states-jaycees

What is in the text is consistent with what I've been saying: racial discrimination in the US is not categorically illegal:

The personal affiliations that exemplify these considerations, and that therefore suggest some relevant limitations on the relationships that might be entitled to this sort of constitutional protection, are those that attend the creation and sustenance of a family — marriage, e. g., Zablocki v. Redhail, supra; childbirth, e. g., Carey v. Population Services International, supra; the raising and education of children, e. g., Smith v. Organization of Foster Families, supra; and cohabitation with one's relatives, e. g., Moore v. East Cleveland, supra. Family relationships, by their nature, involve deep attachments and commitments to the necessarily few other individuals with whom one shares not only a special community of thoughts, experiences, and beliefs but also distinctively personal aspects of one's life. Among other things, therefore, they are distinguished by such attributes as relative smallness, a high degree of selectivity in decisions to begin and maintain the affiliation, and seclusion from others in critical aspects of the relationship. As a general matter, only relationships with these sorts of qualities are likely to reflect the considerations that have led to an understanding of freedom of association as an intrinsic element of personal liberty. Conversely, an association lacking these qualities — such as a large business enterprise — seems remote from the concerns giving rise to this constitutional protection. Accordingly, the Constitution undoubtedly imposes constraints on the State's power to control the selection of one's spouse that would not apply to regulations affecting the choice of one's fellow employees.

In this case, however, several features of the Jaycees clearly place the organization outside of the category of relationships worthy of this kind of constitutional protection. The undisputed facts reveal that the local chapters of the Jaycees are large and basically unselective groups.
...
In short, the local chapters of the Jaycees are neither small nor selective. Moreover, much of the activity central to the formation and maintenance of the association involves the participation of strangers to that relationship. Accordingly, we conclude that the Jaycees chapters lack the distinctive characteristics that might afford constitutional protection to the decision of its members to exclude women.

In my view, an association should be characterized as commercial, and therefore subject to rationally related state regulation of its membership and other associational activities, when, and only when, the association's activities are not predominantly of the type protected by the First Amendment. It is only when the association is predominantly engaged in protected expression that state regulation of its membership will necessarily affect, change, dilute, or silence one collective voice that would otherwise be heard. An association must choose its market. Once it enters the marketplace of commerce in any substantial degree it loses the complete control over its membership that it would otherwise enjoy if it confined its affairs to the marketplace of ideas.

https://casetext.com/case/roberts-v-united-states-jaycees
 
He's not getting into the SC rulings on Affirmative Action that guide a lot of this non-sense. It boils down to government (and societal, basically) interest in diversity. They have found you can discriminate against whites (a couple college admissions cases) because there is a huge interest in "diversity." I think a new case needs to amend the current standards and tests. Whites are the world majority, and based on the one drop rule, if you follow that, are shrinking the fastest. We are the minority, and delusional leftists who want to feign superiority through righteousness are lying to themselves at least as much as they are lying to everybody else.

Good point about AA. The fact that all institutions with AA (or to use the more recent lingo, "diversity" policies) have not at the very least been given the ultimatum to stop discriminating or face punishment, refutes the claim the racial discrimination is categorically illegal.
 
You're using a possible explanation blacks haven't gotten certain jobs as if it were a sound argument for why blacks haven't gotten certain jobs. That's textbook ad hoc fallacy.

If members of a race disproportionately not being hired for certain jobs is evidence of racial discrimination, then the owners of teams have racially discriminated against whites, since whites disproportionately lose out on roster spots in the NFL and NBA.
The person you are arguing with was directly benefited by all of this.
 
Black coaches don’t need a handicap. Mike Tomlin has the second best winning percentage among active coaches. I know the reason for the policy would be to get more black coaches in the role than there currently are but doesn’t seem like the right route to do it. You are looking to open access/ opportunity, not skew the system itself while attempting to do so.

Agree for the most part. I just wish they would answer the question why there are more whites as coaches, GM's, QB etc.. when blacks players saturate the NFL with so much talent.


Are they telling me that they can't do the same job as their counterparts? We need some honest answers.
 
I wonder why the owners don't vote on giving priority to selling teams to minorities... The most skewed number is the owners lol
 
It's why dipshits like Adam Gase get a second head coaching job with the ability to make personnel decisions in New York for the Jets after his complete clusterfuck down in Miami for 3 years when he had all the same power.

Hue Jackson in Cleveland likely got a longer leash than he should have cause he worked with Marvin Lewis for awhile. PEOPLE KEEP TRYING TO GIVE MCDANIELS A HC JOB after his abomination of a season in Denver and re-negging on the Colts because he was the OC for Brady under Bill.
Yeah as a Pats fan I think McDaniels has cost us titles.
 
define not white? i've had many a liberal tell me that asians and mexicans are white
 
If I were an owner, I'd just hire some crackhead as my "head coach" and make my actual head coach some honorary position. Then everyone would still know who the real coach is and I'd still get those sweet draft picks.
I've seen some stupid fucking posts on Sherdog but this ranks right up there .
 
I'll wait to see if they implement this. If they do, I'm gone and I'll dedicate a couple years to taking people with me. I'll make sure my kids aren't fans, for example.

A vocal minority of people like you will care, but most people won’t, for the same reason nobody cared when coaches were saying that’s blacks weren’t smart enough to play QB, tribalism and the overarching requirement that they are rooting for a winning team.
 
C’mon man, that’s shallow reasoning. There are countless historical precedents to draw from that verify the existence and broad spectrum of systemic racism within institutions, NFL included.
Source re the NFL?
 
For those actually interested in this topic Chris Sims ( as in son of Phil Sims and former NFL QB) has an interesting take



Sims is one of my favourite NFL analysts

One issue he highlights is how little you are paid starting out , his first year with the patriots he took home 10 grand and was working 100 hours a week , basically he says it's much easier if you come from money to get your foot into the door especially when you combine it with nepotism and whatnot .
 
Yeah, thanks. I understand all that, and as I've already said, I'm open to the idea that racism could be in play here. But nothing you said makes it a sure thing. It is not evidence that racism is currently holding back black coaches. The only racial discrimination we'd know for sure would be if the NFL implemented this racist rule, which clearly discriminates against teams that hire white coaches.

If racial discrimination in hiring is bad, and I think we agree that it is, then it should be easy to see that the NFL's rule that rewards racial discrimination in hiring is bad.
It doesn't have to be racism , there are other factors at play , check out the video I posted above .
 


According to Jim Trotter they traveled the idea.
 
Yeah, sounds so important to me. I care not one bit for the nfl, but this is one sport that affirmative action doesn’t touch because most of the league is black and it is based on performance. Now they are pushing race above performance. As if I didn’t need another reason to hate that sport
 
So they’re voting to establish their belief that colored coaches aren’t as smart as white coaches.

Idiots.
 
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