NFL Discussion: Running Backs are worthless

[NewbZor]

I cant see why you keep posting dumb ass skewed articles and comments, no.

Supposedly now you dont believe it, but you keep posting about it lol.

Emphatic no then lol

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Tyrod doesn't take many chances and usually will either check the ball down or just run. He also has a hard time passing for over 200 yards a game. Both of these QB's have their drawbacks. Neither is a player you build your team around.

You definitely don't build around either guy. But if you need a plug in for a season or two, I'll take the guy with football IQ over the Harvard grad who thinks he's Aaron Rodgers.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

https://suuma.eu/the-running-game-is-largely-irrelevant-today-as-it-was-in-the-1980s/

I'm not saying I agree with the article, but it's worth a read.

Interesting read, but seems pretty overstated. Yeah, if you can only run but not pass you'll lose a lot. But if you don't have a world-beater QB (how many times did that article use a Joe Montana, Drew Brees, or Tom Brady lead offense as its example?) good luck passing 50-60 times a game. Having seen what happened to the Ravens offense when Rice got hurt (and then went 100% douche) and Flacco started throwing 40 times a game, I've got to say I just can't agree with the term 'irrelevant'. Yes, the Ravens won their SB because Flacco had a historic yoff run, but Ray Rice saved their asses twice on that run, including creating a first down on 4th and 23 late in a game. People may point out that he was thrown the ball, but he caught it behind the LOS. Which leads to another point. From Walsh on until now, more and more short passes have lead to inflated passing % and numbers. Are we claiming that check downs to RBs who just came off the block aren't a hybrid of running and passing game? If you have a shitty RB, that's a huge chunk of your passing game that's going to be hampered.

Teams with strong running games can grind up the clock at the end. They can do far more in the passing game. Irrelevant isn't born out in that data. Just the well known fact that it's nearly impossible to win without a competent passing game (although the 2001 Ravens disagree, but that's a whole other matter and that defensive dominance can never be recreated under the current rules).

 

[ralphc1]

Why? Dez still has a ton of talent and he could be with Godgers. I don't want him on GB, so, I say Witten can fuck off, too. Just for that. I like everything else about the guy.

He'll want too much money.

 

[Revolver]

You definitely don't build around either guy. But if you need a plug in for a season or two, I'll take the guy with football IQ over the Harvard grad who thinks he's Aaron Rodgers.

Fitzpatrick's main problem is that he doesn't have the arm strength to make the throws he's attempting and that's why he throws so many picks. Guess he doesn't know his own limitations.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Why would any good team want Dez right now? He's made it very clear all he wants to do this year is pad his stats so he can get one last big contract. He's been declining for years. Not to mention his track record of being a hot head when things don't go his way. Why would any team with intentions of contending bother with that headache?

Find a shitty, 'rebuilding' team that has a decent QB. They might not mind Dez acting like the team exists to further his career.

 

[MarkyMcFly]

lol for anyone else it's called a "prove-it deal"

When it's Dez it's a "This team only exists to further my career" deal

lmao

 

[Revolver]

Most NFL teams jump at the opportunity for a player to take a prove it deal except in Dez's case. Is he really that big of a headache?

 

[MarkyMcFly]

Most NFL teams jump at the opportunity for a player to take a prove it deal except in Dez's case. Is he really that big of a headache?

Even if he's not as big as one protrayed, it's in everyones minds. Apparently, he would try to run all the WR stuff his way, and the coaches didn't have a voice. That shit get's out, and get's around.

 

[NewbZor]

Interesting read, but seems pretty overstated. Yeah, if you can only run but not pass you'll lose a lot. But if you don't have a world-beater QB (how many times did that article use a Joe Montana, Drew Brees, or Tom Brady lead offense as its example?) good luck passing 50-60 times a game. Having seen what happened to the Ravens offense when Rice got hurt (and then went 100% douche) and Flacco started throwing 40 times a game, I've got to say I just can't agree with the term 'irrelevant'. Yes, the Ravens won their SB because Flacco had a historic yoff run, but Ray Rice saved their asses twice on that run, including creating a first down on 4th and 23 late in a game. People may point out that he was thrown the ball, but he caught it behind the LOS. Which leads to another point. From Walsh on until now, more and more short passes have lead to inflated passing % and numbers. Are we claiming that check downs to RBs who just came off the block aren't a hybrid of running and passing game? If you have a shitty RB, that's a huge chunk of your passing game that's going to be hampered.

Teams with strong running games can grind up the clock at the end. They can do far more in the passing game. Irrelevant isn't born out in that data. Just the well known fact that it's nearly impossible to win without a competent passing game (although the 2001 Ravens disagree, but that's a whole other matter and that defensive dominance can never be recreated under the current rules).

I'm 100% in favor of running the ball / being a balanced offense. I'm more so pointing to the Eagles and I really like what they do, apparently they are the heaviest users of analytics in the league. They really just throw their draft capital at OL/DL/CB.
First 3 rounds the last 3 years

2018 - TE, CB, DE
2017 - DE, CB, CB
2016 - QB, OL

(2015 draft was also - WR, CB, ILB, CB, CB, DE)

Also the interesting note in the article - Browns were top 3 rush defense and top 12 rushing team, but won 0 games. If you had those stats for passing defense / passing attack you are a playoff team. So I do agree to an extent passing the ball is more important then rushing.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

I'm 100% in favor of running the ball / being a balanced offense. I'm more so pointing to the Eagles and I really like what they do, apparently they are the heaviest users of analytics in the league. They really just throw their draft capital at OL/DL/CB.
First 3 rounds the last 3 years

2018 - TE, CB, DE
2017 - DE, CB, CB
2016 - QB, OL

(2015 draft was also - WR, CB, ILB, CB, CB, DE)

Also the interesting note in the article - Browns were top 3 rush defense and top 12 rushing team, but won 0 games. If you had those stats for passing defense / passing attack you are a playoff team. So I do agree to an extent passing the ball is more important then rushing.

Well like I said, I think it's well understood that the passing game is more important. I just think 'irrelevant' (which that article explicitly says repeatedly) is a gigantic overstatement. And I repeat, I think the article also largely ignores the merging of the run/pass game from Walsh's time on. Acting like RBs catching the ball behind the LOS is 100% a pass play just doesn't work for me.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Even if he's not as big as one protrayed, it's in everyones minds. Apparently, he would try to run all the WR stuff his way, and the coaches didn't have a voice. That shit get's out, and get's around.

But his inability to find a 'prove-it deal' has nothing to do with him acting like the team exists to further his career, while he's been declining for years.

 

[NewbZor]

Well like I said, I think it's well understood that the passing game is more important. I just think 'irrelevant' (which that article explicitly says repeatedly) is a gigantic overstatement. And I repeat, I think the article also largely ignores the merging of the run/pass game from Walsh's time on. Acting like RBs catching the ball behind the LOS is 100% a pass play just doesn't work for me.

Fair critic, I agree

 

[Corona]

The browns also had Hue Jackson at coach dawg.

 

[MarkyMcFly]

But his inability to find a 'prove-it deal' has nothing to do with him acting like the team exists to further his career, while he's been declining for years.

Is that a question?

You do know what a prove-it deal is....right? Let me pose a question to you... In a "prove-it" deal....what is your goal?

 

[FLYOVER BOSSMAN]

Fair critic, I agree

Critique, you philistine.

 

[NewbZor]

Critique, you philistine.

Nah man, I meant he's a critic against the article but is being fair.

 

[OnionKnight86]

So I do agree to an extent passing the ball is more important then rushing.

Well it is a pass heavy league. Penalties in the passing game favor the offense more than the defense.

You don't need an elite QB to get you a ring, just makes it a little bit easier.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Yea, my argument was that finding rushing yards from RBs is much easier then filling other positions. I never claimed rushing isn't important. All stemmed from Giants taking Barkley at 2, shouldn't spend that much draft capital on a RB.

That depends on if you believe he is Gurley or Elliot. Any position outside of kickers can be worth a #2 pick if they are truly elite.

 

[Gregolian]

Shannon and Skip agreeing with each other ad speaking sense?.....

Broken clocks and all that.

Most NFL teams jump at the opportunity for a player to take a prove it deal except in Dez's case. Is he really that big of a headache?

After a win:


Then there's the way him and the other star receiver in Witten would get into it all the time. And Witten seems like the most even keel/non confrontational dude ever:



The guy is a fucking headcase and I feel like a fair amount of teams just don't want to deal with it.

I'd be real interested to see his numbers though if he had a Godgers, Brees, Brady, or even Wilson and healthy Luck throwing to him.

Is that a question?

You do know what a prove-it deal is....right? Let me pose a question to you... In a "prove-it" deal....what is your goal?

As a team front office?

Give a vet that was a proven commodity at one time as little money as you can in the hope them wanting a big deal later they return to form.


As a player. Get a one year deal to prove I'm not washed up for a big payday the following season.


Mo Wilkerson's deal is one such deal.