New to BJJ...How hard should I roll ?? (old thread, 2010)
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Your advantages and disadvantages are tools. Use them. If your stronger and are able to pin people through the explosive flurry. Do it. Then advance. That's a very basic thing for BJJ and wrestling.
Sub all those pussies. Sounds like they need it...
Sub all those pussies. Sounds like they need it...
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If no one is getting hurt then keep doing what you are doing, if they don't like it, go to a different gym. You probably have been wrestling for many years, for an instructor to suggest that you don't use your wrestling is basically telling you not to use your best asset. Most likely you are bruising their gigantic egos because you are giving people who are a higher belt a difficult time. Unfortunately there are many schools like this.
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My coach was saying the same thing to me while I was thinking that I am going easy. We spent last year to get me really relaxed while rolling. No looking back I can understand what he meant.
How did you figure that out?
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I'm not athletic at all, every coach I have had has always told me to wrestle in a way that tries to eliminate athleticism from the match as much as possible. So being told I'm being athletic when I'm using a Tozi then nearside underhook pass is.. irksome, especially since because I'm smaller, I have to use technique
See what's frustrating is that I'm not using the explosive flurry or trying to pin in the rolls I'm talking about, I'm not doing anything particularly "wrestle" based. And the person I'm going with is going completely berserk and bucking yanking/clinging to the gi with grips that do nothing etc. I know when I have "been too much the wrestler" or when I'm with a tough upper belt I roll completely different and try to get to my "wrestling" positions way more often rather than work on stuff.
Honestly it wouldn't annoy me so much if was like the times me and another person have just gone all out and berserk on eachother. But when someone much bigger is going balls out.. and I'm the one staying relaxed, progressing position, and not going berserk.. but I get told it because I'm the "wrestler" that gets annoying
Whoops. of height lol, and like I said above, I know when I'm rolling hard and being tense, or when I'm just training and trying stuff
Tough to say if you're actually rolling too hard without seeing it firsthand.
The real issue though seems to be that you don't fully trust your coach's judgment. I see this a lot with guys who stick around a gym anyway for years because of other reasons, but it tends to lead to stagnation.
I assume you are paying this guy a certain amount per month for his judgment. You can give it a few months to figure him out, but if you end up not trusting him, it's time to find another gym. Because if you can't trust the guy enough to take advice you can't see for yourself, you won't be able to progress much faster than if you just rolled at random open mats with no coach. In both cases, you'd just be working on whatever you thought you needed to work on at the time.
The real value of having a coach is that he can see things in you that you can't. He can point you in directions you'd never have gone in by yourself. And for that to work, you need to trust his judgment on these matters.
The real issue though seems to be that you don't fully trust your coach's judgment. I see this a lot with guys who stick around a gym anyway for years because of other reasons, but it tends to lead to stagnation.
I assume you are paying this guy a certain amount per month for his judgment. You can give it a few months to figure him out, but if you end up not trusting him, it's time to find another gym. Because if you can't trust the guy enough to take advice you can't see for yourself, you won't be able to progress much faster than if you just rolled at random open mats with no coach. In both cases, you'd just be working on whatever you thought you needed to work on at the time.
The real value of having a coach is that he can see things in you that you can't. He can point you in directions you'd never have gone in by yourself. And for that to work, you need to trust his judgment on these matters.
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I understand that completely especially as a coach myself. However the instructor I was with the longest before wrestling was the priority again. "Showed me" or rolled with me till I understood how to roll properly with hobbyists lol
It's just annoying being told I'm rolling a certain way when it's my first time on the mats in months, been through a lot of stress and haven't been eating. and scrambling, hussling and spazzing sound god awful and the person underneath who is much bigger is literally trying to bench press me off. I don't have a problem moderating my intensity getting talked to and treated a certain way when I'm doing nothing to warrant it or show concern. It's something that comes up at certain schools and never st others
Unfortunately asides from an mma gym it's the only one that's not a hour drive away
I'd give it a little while to see if it changes.
Otherwise, I'd say the vibe really isn't for you after all and maybe check out the MMA gym if that's the nearest option.
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The MMA gym will be more accepting of your wrestling base. They won't tell you to ease up especially if you're rolling against pro/amateur fighters.
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Yeah, I've been thinking that but I'd rather be at a bjj than mma gym, I have a 39 year olds body at age 25 because of college lol. I trained at one before I moved and there was no problem. It was more sport than self defense though, I think that is the difference.
On the bright side the mma gym may want me to help teach wrestling
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That's the weird thing, it was a midday class with mostly self defense and technique with one roll at the end with the lower belt and the head guy who watching like he was worried the whole time, like I said, if I was rolling hard or hitting crazy scrambles or muscling through stuff or beating up on smaller/same sized noob I wouldn't say anything. But the entire time there was a weird vibe like don't hurt anyone wrassler,
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Yeah I will, just frustrating and seemed so unnecessary, and another red flag was the way he pointedly talked about how ineffective wrestling was compared to judo for self defense, because wrestling needs you to hit your knees. I didn't say anything it just came out during the self defense portion. I'll try it out a little longer but it was all a little weird
Honestly the way I talked about how I rolled was the same vibe he had the whole time, a 19 year old high school wrestler spazzing with something to prove, rather than a 25 year old college graduate whos done bjj on and off for 5 years on top of college wrestling
I've never experienced that vibe before, most gyms head instructors at schools I've visited or trained at, once they realized I'm not trying to prove anything and will listen they love having me there
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@jack36767 I think people don't know what they are looking at sometimes.
For example, there was this guy that used to come to kick boxing / mma sparring years ago that had 150 pounds on me. He played college football. Despite his size, he could jump kick, kick over his head, breakfall, bob and weave... it was terrible. So we are sparring. I'm on the side lines watching, standing next to the Judo coach who is also an old karate man. He looks at me and says, "I don't see what the problem is. Why is that guy beating everyone? Just kick him in the knee."
It irritated me. I wanted to say, "then you get up there and show us how it's done because last time he hit me like I meant it, I had trouble shoveling snow six months later."
When I roll now, I do a lot of half guard. I get the darce killer sweep on people at every gym I visit. I get it on purple belts. I get it on people bigger than myself. I get it all the time. I get it because people think you are suppose to wizzer all underhooks no matter what, and that I'm able to roll them over because of the advantage my fatness gives me. Most people are not capable of understanding the darce killer sweep unless it is explained with the authority of a black belt. They will just feed it over and over and over like broken robots, because someone with authority told them to always put the wizzer on all underhooks. They'd rather tell me to "use technique" than size. Then they'll feed the same stupid sweep again.
When someone tells you that you are going too hard, even though you aren't hurting anyone, what they mean is, "you look bad because you aren't making me feel good by retreating through the prescribed list of customary, non pressure techniques. Please act right."
For example, there was this guy that used to come to kick boxing / mma sparring years ago that had 150 pounds on me. He played college football. Despite his size, he could jump kick, kick over his head, breakfall, bob and weave... it was terrible. So we are sparring. I'm on the side lines watching, standing next to the Judo coach who is also an old karate man. He looks at me and says, "I don't see what the problem is. Why is that guy beating everyone? Just kick him in the knee."
It irritated me. I wanted to say, "then you get up there and show us how it's done because last time he hit me like I meant it, I had trouble shoveling snow six months later."
When I roll now, I do a lot of half guard. I get the darce killer sweep on people at every gym I visit. I get it on purple belts. I get it on people bigger than myself. I get it all the time. I get it because people think you are suppose to wizzer all underhooks no matter what, and that I'm able to roll them over because of the advantage my fatness gives me. Most people are not capable of understanding the darce killer sweep unless it is explained with the authority of a black belt. They will just feed it over and over and over like broken robots, because someone with authority told them to always put the wizzer on all underhooks. They'd rather tell me to "use technique" than size. Then they'll feed the same stupid sweep again.
When someone tells you that you are going too hard, even though you aren't hurting anyone, what they mean is, "you look bad because you aren't making me feel good by retreating through the prescribed list of customary, non pressure techniques. Please act right."
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Oh I agree. Like i said the weird vibe was the instructor and how he acted The Who time and after, I've never encountered someone above purple with that kind of vibe or attitude.
On a side note note, I wish more former college football and basketball players would get into bjj and mma. That way the stupid fucks can see some real athletes and stop whining about the "athlete" wrestlers . Though the martial arts jargon and excuse making would be funny
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They won't let them compete I've seen it before, unless they prescribe to their "old school training", they're going to have to go independent.
"oh you're 5'10 195ish? I want you at featherweight. BTW I don't want you cutting more than 5lbs either, muscle is useless, you need to lose it, event's in 4 months BTW"
If they prescribe they have all kinds of excuses:
-you lost: well its because technique, this is different, athleticism is nothing to technique, you need to stop using "strength"
-they win: opponent was a can
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Wow.. I guess that lets them reinforce their narratives though rather than giving the personalities and people who would benefit the most from getting into bjj because it would hurt ego and narratives
I've trained with two former NFL players. Talk about athletic.
The guys typically do BJJ very casually though and don't want to compete. I never asked about it really, but I can imagine that after you've been paid millions of dollars to play in the NFL before 50K screaming fans, paying $80 to do your local NAGA at white belt might not really be that attractive.
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Is it possible you don't know how hard you are rolling?
Lately I've been thinking that's true for me. I always try to stay very relaxed, and I roll with a lot less intensity than I used to because I am old. But I used to go balls to the wall, so I think I might be under-estimating my current intensity.
Lately I've been thinking that's true for me. I always try to stay very relaxed, and I roll with a lot less intensity than I used to because I am old. But I used to go balls to the wall, so I think I might be under-estimating my current intensity.
