Television ANDOR (Dragonlord's Recommendation: One of the Best TV Shows of 2022, post #439)

This is the new "Star Wars Slowdown." Lasted about two weeks and they're already spamming shit again.

I suspect it might be a response, basically shift more towards stuff like Rogue One that went down well with the fans to try and win back people who hated Last Jedi.

I mean story wise it seems a bit unnecessary to me but at least the character was decent enough. The main problem I think they might have is that a lot of the success of Rogue One depended on how it was made, Edwards and Gilroy gave it a strong atmosphere that might not be easy to replicate with lesser directors and smaller budgets.

I think there are probably aiming at the right kind of area with these series though, more the kind of rebel spy/gangster culture that I can see sustaining a longer series rather than grander Jedi fantasty.
 
I suspect it might be a response, basically shift more towards stuff like Rogue One that went down well with the fans to try and win back people who hated Last Jedi.

I mean story wise it seems a bit unnecessary to me but at least the character was decent enough. The main problem I think they might have is that a lot of the success of Rogue One depended on how it was made, Edwards and Gilroy gave it a strong atmosphere that might not be easy to replicate with lesser directors and smaller budgets.

I suppose I prefer Rogue One to anything else I've seen from Lucasfilm as of late, but the movie's biggest weakness was its characters - all of them. There isn't a single one I want to see more of... Maybe Mads Mikkelsen. Maybe the entirety of what was cut with Forest Whitaker (i.e. his entire character).
 
I think there are probably aiming at the right kind of area with these series though, more the kind of rebel spy/gangster culture that I can see sustaining a longer series rather than grander Jedi fantasty.

Well, the good news is that nobody will really care if Cassian Andor gets dragged through the mud.
 
Guy is such a dick. If his movie didn't communicate what he says it communicates, then he failed. You don't see Spielberg bickering on twitter with random people about his movies.

He'll be at the bar if anyone needs him. He should be at the bar, drinking away the memory of his 45% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and asking drunken strangers for screenwriting tips.

He probably already got cut by Disney behind doors and now is just bitter so he resorts to trolling fans. His behavior is like that of someone with nothing to lose.

Funny how when the RT viewer score was 57% the apologists said it was a loud vocal minority and pointed towards the 8.0 imdb score....now the imdb score is 7.2, and as time passes it will only get lower. Currently it is ranked #7 of all SW movies, LOL.
 
He probably already got cut by Disney behind doors and now is just bitter so he resorts to trolling fans. His behavior is like that of someone with nothing to lose.

Funny how when the RT viewer score was 57% the apologists said it was a loud vocal minority and pointed towards the 8.0 imdb score....now the imdb score is 7.2, and as time passes it will only get lower. Currently it is ranked #7 of all SW movies, LOL.

It's so stupid. You don't see Joel Schumacher snapping at people that don't like Batman and Robin. He knows he fucked up and just doesn't talk about it. George Clooney laughs and pokes fun at the movie and his performance, instead of snapping at people and telling them it's the best Batman and they're too stupid to understand it.

Stallone thinks Rocky 5 is worse than it actually is. He doesn't snap at people and tell them Rocky 5 is awesome.

Jeez, Rian. Just take your medicine. Your movie stunk and people didn't like it.
 
It's so stupid. You don't see Joel Schumacher snapping at people that don't like Batman and Robin. He knows he fucked up and just doesn't talk about it. George Clooney laughs and pokes fun at the movie and his performance, instead of snapping at people and telling them it's the best Batman and they're too stupid to understand it.

Stallone thinks Rocky 5 is worse than it actually is. He doesn't snap at people and tell them Rocky 5 is awesome.

Jeez, Rian. Just take your medicine. Your movie stunk and people didn't like it.

Notice how every argument he has in his defense is basically a jab at the OT? Or a comparison to the OT?

-On Snoke: Palpatine wasn't explained in ROTJ, therefore Snoke needs no explaining
-Mark mourning Han wasn't necessary, so we deleted that 10 second mourning scene. In ANH, Luke only mourns Obi Wan for a minute (false)
-Empire would have been roasted worse than TLJ on social media because fans wouldn't like seeing Vader kick Luke's ass and Han Solo giving up w/out a fight (WTF?)
-I couldn't fit Lando in the movie because fans wouldn't buy that he would betray Finn and Rose (callback to Empire).
-Snoke had to die to get rid of the traditional old, wise Sith mentor to a younger Sith dynamic.
 
Notice how every argument he has in his defense is basically a jab at the OT? Or a comparison to the OT?

-On Snoke: Palpatine wasn't explained in ROTJ, therefore Snoke needs no explaining
-Mark mourning Han wasn't necessary, so we deleted that 10 second mourning scene. In ANH, Luke only mourns Obi Wan for a minute (false)
-Empire would have been roasted worse than TLJ on social media because fans wouldn't like seeing Vader kick Luke's ass and Han Solo giving up w/out a fight (WTF?)
-I couldn't fit Lando in the movie because fans wouldn't buy that he would betray Finn and Rose (callback to Empire).
-Snoke had to die to get rid of the traditional old, wise Sith mentor to a younger Sith dynamic.

The first thing I said in here when the movie came out was, "I don't know why Rian Johnson made a Star Wars movie if he hates Star Wars."
 
The first thing I said in here when the movie came out was, "I don't know why Rian Johnson made a Star Wars movie if he hates Star Wars."

He wanted a seat at the cool kids table. That being the higher ups at Lucasfilm and Disney.

I wish James Camerson would direct a Star Wars film. He has a nack for making cool sci fi. Avatar is mediocre IMO, but he is clearly putting technology over story for that movie. In SW, I'm sure he would put story and characters first.
 
Sounds like you saw a bit more depth in the Felicity Jones character than I did. They both seemed kind of like the same character to me, and neither one terribly fleshed out. I mean, take away Diego Luna shooting that dude on his team five minutes in and there really is no character, for either of them.

Basically, they both be nothing without being paired. But you can probably take the Felicity Jones character and pair up with lots of different types. Where as the Diego Luna character can really only be used in some situation. They can make a series around Felicity Jones character, and go on many different adventures with different guest stars. Too bad, she was killed off.

Id actually like to see a plotline like that. A weak female character with great potential, going through adventures to grow stronger with different partners who she can learn from. As opposed to the strong male lead, who goes around helping others.
 
I found this hot take on Luke's portrayal in TLJ from theforce.net:

"The thing for me about TLJ Luke is that, on the one hand, I understand and appreciate the appeal of a highly dramatic, bold, and unexpected version of "Broken Luke" that we got. I was predicting and looking forward to a Broken Luke for many of the same reasons that Rian Johnson went with the direction: it allowed Mark Hamill to show range, would embrace explanations for why Luke wasn't involved in TFA, and would eventually have to be capped with a reconstruction or resurrection phase. And all those elements were kind of in TLJ...

...But on the other hand, I find the actual plot and execution of the Broken Luke to be fatally weak and, yeah, at this level, out of character because of how the story undermines itself. The story as presented in TLJ embraces far too large of a dimension to Luke's "brokenness" for totally insufficient and badly portrayed causes, ones that end up making the Luke of TLJ seem more self-centered, myopic, and focused on Kylo than I think even the furthest extreme of what Rian Johnson was looking for (as are most of the characters in the Force story.)

When it comes to the hut incident, we're already in very shaky territory with the simple supposition that the Luke from the OT would be creepin' on his nephew, reading his thoughts, and igniting his lightsaber over him; people can, in my opinion, justifiably say that the moment is out of character. It's a subjective argument, but its one that I feel has enough evidence on the side of those critical of the decision that it needs greater explanation. We need to understand what would take the Luke from ROTJ and put him in that headspace, because the basic principles of the scene directly contradict his final form there; why does he feel the need to spy on his nephew, why has he forgotten the evolution he went through, why is he already this broken?

But it's the after-effects of the massacre, the portrayal of his downward spiral afterwards, and especially the way the film interprets and treats the massacre of the school and what the audience is supposed to be focused on that completely undermines the interpretation of Luke in TLJ. The biggest issue is with Luke being so completely broken, arguably to an unbelievable extent, by the events; the film does eventually offer some vagueries that are totally inadequate explanations about him hoping the Force simply creates a counter to Kylo and thus he's trying to stay out of it... but how does that encompass the character from the OT not even telling his sister what happened? Or seeking to die but being unwilling to commit suicide, and for some reason going to a place that is, ultimately, a landmark that Imperial records can locate if need be? How does his mind twist to blame the Jedi? Why is he so convinced that inaction will have a positive benefit? The film's explanation for his breakdown simply becomes one of narrative conveniences and handwaves, depending on the quality of Hamill's acting to carry the story, not internal logic or strong characterization by the script.

But compounding the issue is Rian Johnson's fanboy crush on Kylo Ren again twisting the story. The whole point of the hut scene is supposed to be about explaining how Luke's failure was igniting his saber on some homicidal urges he got after detecting only possibilities about Ben going bad; intrinsic to the scene is the idea that the Ben in front on Luke is still by and large innocent enough that Luke reactions isn't justified. But then the film establishes that Ben, upon leaving the hut, immediately slaughters his school. This is the exact opposite of what the scene should be; because it honestly makes it look an awful lot like Luke's homicidal reactions were justified, and that his mistake was in not finishing the job. That's totally not what Rian Johnson wants to imply, but he was blinded to the issue because...

...The film really, really doesn't want to blame Kylo nearly enough for what happened, or have Luke react in an actually human way, because that way would be against Kylo. All those dead students? They don't really mean anything to the story, beyond explaining why there are no Jedi and where the Knights of Ren (maybe) came from. The script can't conceive of these dead students as living beings that Luke would have loved and cared for, or that Rey should sympathize with, because doing so would require a far more visceral reaction on the part of both of them against Kylo, and Luke's character is not supposed to be defined by wrath towards his nephew but instead a sense of loss and sorrow, while Rey simply can't be allowed to view Kylo negatively in TLJ, no matter how much that makes sense. So whatever element of TLJ's version of Luke isn't wrapped up in melodramatic self-centeredness is instead used to feel sympathy for the school shooter that is Kylo. It's a severe mistake; honestly, the goal of the fill with Luke could have been accomplished simply by having his reaction to the crime send him into such a rage that he's terrified of using the Force because the dark side comes so easily now, or he refuses to train Rey because of the deaths of so many students has wounded him too much.

TLJ wanted to tell the story fo a believably broken Luke trying to manipulate the Force to fixing his mistakes out of some understandable loss of perspective. But what the film actually had in its script was a self-centered coward divorced from any even remotely believable perspective, where his mind contorts in unnatural ways to justify total stagnation and abdication of his responsibilities and previous characterization, alongside the film's virus-like exceptionalism for Kylo Ren."
 
I found this hot take on Luke's portrayal in TLJ from theforce.net:

"The thing for me about TLJ Luke is that, on the one hand, I understand and appreciate the appeal of a highly dramatic, bold, and unexpected version of "Broken Luke" that we got. I was predicting and looking forward to a Broken Luke for many of the same reasons that Rian Johnson went with the direction: it allowed Mark Hamill to show range, would embrace explanations for why Luke wasn't involved in TFA, and would eventually have to be capped with a reconstruction or resurrection phase. And all those elements were kind of in TLJ...

...But on the other hand, I find the actual plot and execution of the Broken Luke to be fatally weak and, yeah, at this level, out of character because of how the story undermines itself. The story as presented in TLJ embraces far too large of a dimension to Luke's "brokenness" for totally insufficient and badly portrayed causes, ones that end up making the Luke of TLJ seem more self-centered, myopic, and focused on Kylo than I think even the furthest extreme of what Rian Johnson was looking for (as are most of the characters in the Force story.)

When it comes to the hut incident, we're already in very shaky territory with the simple supposition that the Luke from the OT would be creepin' on his nephew, reading his thoughts, and igniting his lightsaber over him; people can, in my opinion, justifiably say that the moment is out of character. It's a subjective argument, but its one that I feel has enough evidence on the side of those critical of the decision that it needs greater explanation. We need to understand what would take the Luke from ROTJ and put him in that headspace, because the basic principles of the scene directly contradict his final form there; why does he feel the need to spy on his nephew, why has he forgotten the evolution he went through, why is he already this broken?

But it's the after-effects of the massacre, the portrayal of his downward spiral afterwards, and especially the way the film interprets and treats the massacre of the school and what the audience is supposed to be focused on that completely undermines the interpretation of Luke in TLJ. The biggest issue is with Luke being so completely broken, arguably to an unbelievable extent, by the events; the film does eventually offer some vagueries that are totally inadequate explanations about him hoping the Force simply creates a counter to Kylo and thus he's trying to stay out of it... but how does that encompass the character from the OT not even telling his sister what happened? Or seeking to die but being unwilling to commit suicide, and for some reason going to a place that is, ultimately, a landmark that Imperial records can locate if need be? How does his mind twist to blame the Jedi? Why is he so convinced that inaction will have a positive benefit? The film's explanation for his breakdown simply becomes one of narrative conveniences and handwaves, depending on the quality of Hamill's acting to carry the story, not internal logic or strong characterization by the script.

But compounding the issue is Rian Johnson's fanboy crush on Kylo Ren again twisting the story. The whole point of the hut scene is supposed to be about explaining how Luke's failure was igniting his saber on some homicidal urges he got after detecting only possibilities about Ben going bad; intrinsic to the scene is the idea that the Ben in front on Luke is still by and large innocent enough that Luke reactions isn't justified. But then the film establishes that Ben, upon leaving the hut, immediately slaughters his school. This is the exact opposite of what the scene should be; because it honestly makes it look an awful lot like Luke's homicidal reactions were justified, and that his mistake was in not finishing the job. That's totally not what Rian Johnson wants to imply, but he was blinded to the issue because...

...The film really, really doesn't want to blame Kylo nearly enough for what happened, or have Luke react in an actually human way, because that way would be against Kylo. All those dead students? They don't really mean anything to the story, beyond explaining why there are no Jedi and where the Knights of Ren (maybe) came from. The script can't conceive of these dead students as living beings that Luke would have loved and cared for, or that Rey should sympathize with, because doing so would require a far more visceral reaction on the part of both of them against Kylo, and Luke's character is not supposed to be defined by wrath towards his nephew but instead a sense of loss and sorrow, while Rey simply can't be allowed to view Kylo negatively in TLJ, no matter how much that makes sense. So whatever element of TLJ's version of Luke isn't wrapped up in melodramatic self-centeredness is instead used to feel sympathy for the school shooter that is Kylo. It's a severe mistake; honestly, the goal of the fill with Luke could have been accomplished simply by having his reaction to the crime send him into such a rage that he's terrified of using the Force because the dark side comes so easily now, or he refuses to train Rey because of the deaths of so many students has wounded him too much.

TLJ wanted to tell the story fo a believably broken Luke trying to manipulate the Force to fixing his mistakes out of some understandable loss of perspective. But what the film actually had in its script was a self-centered coward divorced from any even remotely believable perspective, where his mind contorts in unnatural ways to justify total stagnation and abdication of his responsibilities and previous characterization, alongside the film's virus-like exceptionalism for Kylo Ren."

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You're all forgetting some crucial details, chief of which is no one cares about your complaints nor your toxic tears.

Disney is building content as quick as it can and it's not the so much character as it is Diego Luna that they're banking on.

Simple math, for simpletons.

Good-Yard.jpg
 
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What's the appeal of this character? I need some lightsaber wielders or bounty hunters.
 
Rogue One was great. The only Star Wars movie since the original trilogy that was worth watching.

That being said, I have 0 interest in watching this series.

Disney is jumping the shark with this one.
 
What's the appeal of this character? I need some lightsaber wielders or bounty hunters.
No idea.

Still waiting for a Kenobi stand alone film or series.

That or some live action old Sith Lords in action. Bane series would be awesome.
 
Disney is building content as quick as it can and it's not the so much character as it is Diego Luna that they're banking on.

This sentence hurts to read.
 
I liked him I. Rogue one. However I don’t care to see how a motherfucker I know dies lived.

I feel like they are going to show him doing some crazy badass shit in the show and I will be like where the fuck was that guy in rogue one.

Should just keep his past a mystery.
 
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