It should be no surprised to anyone at this point that
A. The kata version isn't realistic or the best and
B. Traditionalists will continue to defend the kata method and teach it with their dying breaths.
One argument that often comes up is power generation, the main claim being that the elbow low and in allows you to generate more power. Now while I'll agree that the elbow in and tight is more efficient for generating power upward, that's not what you really need to uchi mata as the vid points out. What you need is pulling, rotational power, and the high elbow is much better for that. Hell, many of the most powerful movements humans can execute (think Olympic snatches and clean & jerks) require high elbow pull and massive trap involvement. When I teach uchi mata I no longer even show the elbow-in method. I have literally never seen it pulled off between people of anywhere near equal skill level in randori or shiai.
Since my takedowns are terrible, I might be crazy but in terms of nogi I feel the overhook grip variation seems to mimic this too. Or I guess Georgian and belt grips in the gi too.
Yes, the whizzer uchi mata is similar. It allows you to force the head forward and down via shoulder pressure, which is what you need. You can also throw uchi mata with the underhook, but then it tend to be more hippy and less leg + rotation.
I haven't watched the video in detail, but skipping through I was pleasantly surprised. Was expecting a shallow review. Maybe this guy should do competition osoto video lol.
As for traditional vs. comp version, it still remains that a) teaching the traditional way yields valuable lessons b) recreational people cannot do the throw or take the falls c) this technique is optimized for Judo contests vs. very strong people.
Put it another way, if you were a middle aged out of shape weakling, would you want to do this technique on the street? That is, spend all your energy just so you can roll over uke who will proceed to own your now limp body afterwards?
Or, what if you face someone a head taller? You might wish you could throw with the elbow down version.
As with the previous osoto discussion, take a crash pad and see which way you can throw uke harder.
I've seen a lot more recreational people struggle to do it the traditional way than the video way. In addition, I don't think I've ever seen it performed with the elbow in in high level competition. It's odd to me that in Judo but apparently in no other sports you're specifically arguing that because high level people do it a certain way that that way won't work for normal people. It's not like this is some idiosyncratic personal technique like Zantaraia's uchi mata, this is how basically everyone who competes does it every time they compete. It seems absurdly worshipful of tradition to argue that despite all that it's still not the best way to do it.
Awesome video.
Could it be that this variation is the reason that the vast majority of uchi matas also result in tori rolling through to the bottom position? This is something that I'm always disappointed with in uchi mata highlights. It seems that throwing with your chest positioned above your opponents head would naturally result in a roll-through. What do you guys think?
I guess that is the catch: recreational people aren't able to do it the traditional way either. There is no doubt there is a much higher skill requirement (and skill gap between players) to execute traditional techniques. What you get in return is that it takes much less energy. So the payoff appears when you are older but skillful but vs. less skillful opponents.
I recently had to take a long break because I tore something while brute force finishing an armbar (I wanted to finish this purple belt but the clock was running out). I can only imagine what damage I could be doing if I tried to play Judo like I used to.
I certainly think hitting throws with good timing and movement based kuzushi requires less energy, I'm not sure the traditional way is that much better than competition varieties but certainly for most throws the more cleanly you hit it the more it will look like the kata versions.
In general I just think the idea that Judo is a sport you can realistically do to an advanced age against younger partners going full speed is silly. You can practice, but you can't practice as you would for competition into your 50s and 60s. In addition I think your throw mix changes a lot. There's no way to get around the fact that throws like uchi mata and seio nage require a quick turn, a strong pull, and lifting an opponent all the way off the ground. Many ashi waza and sutemi waza however you can do until you're quite old with no problems.
I do however think that for uchi mata the traditional way is just really unrealistic at any age or skill level, unless you're so much better you can just do whatever you want to uke. I don't think that's true of throws like seio nage or tai otoshi where the traditional versions work pretty much as is there are just modifications like dropping made for competition.
FWIW, I don't think elbow up is as big of a difference compared to drop seoi. It's really just a way to help lower uke's head when you can't get close contact. You are doing the same thing elbow down as well, just you are close enough to push uke's head instead of pulling it down.
Rather than calling it traditional, I should call it "textbook, version 1". Basically, uchimata users can do all sorts of variations and adjust on the fly. Not like seoi, where you either a drop, or you don't.
I do agree that uchimata is physically difficult, which is part of the reason I am getting interested in tai otoshi now.
Though, I have seen players in the 50's and even 60's who would give non-elite players a terrorizing on the mat still. Granted they were pretty elite in their time :icon_cry2