New concept of TUF

[ArtOfDrowning]

I admit watching almost every season of TUF, even some boring seasons because I'm just that much of a nerd when it comes to MMA but I think they really need to change the concept of TUF because even us hardcore fans are getting tired of this routine. I know last season was edited good and they have a better production but its all the same. After 18 seasons of more or less the same (counting that Live season) it really gets boring and they will not win new viewers as we see season after season that numbers are not so great.

What I think would help is a new concept. I think many hardcore fans but also casuals like that Primetime/Road to the Octagon type of production. So instead of living in the house they should first scout for really good prospect in good gyms. Then coaches pick guys they wanna coach, they come in and help that fighter develop his game more over 2 weeks while they are shooting everything about life of that fighter like in Primetime. Show where he lives, what he thinks, how he became a fighter, some sad or family story. At the end of two episodes, giving more time for people to know them, two fighters get into a fight. After 8 episodes winners (4 of them) get two more episodes for every match up to again show more training and show fans how fun training BJJ, wrestling and striking can be. What is training all about, show to casual that this is a sport, show how much knowledge in all those areas every fighter must have to get that win inside octagon.

I think this concept would give few beneficial things: less fighters in the show which is actually a good thing because then they would have to pick really good prospects because they wouldn't waste time and two episodes on Let me bang bro guy, fighters could fight at their natural weight class since fights could be apart for few weeks making fights better in quality because they don't cut weight 3 times in a row, more time to show real training of skills, more time for audience to really know the fighters and get to like them, more acceptable to the casual fans which is the point of TUF to get more new viewers and at the end really make us care when these guys get into UFC and the most important to educate new fans and casuals what this sport is all about, skills.

Of course problem would me managing few fighters by one coach if they are in different states but that could be managed with good time planing.

What would your new concept be? I think they really need to change something, they can't do this for another 18 seasons...or they can? I know I will keep on watch but don't know about the casuals

 

[Ackrite]

I admit I watched almost every season of TUF, even some boring season because I'm just that much of a nerd when it comes to MMA but I think they really need to change the concept of TUF because even us hardcore fans are getting tired of this routine. I know last season was edited good and they have a better production but its all the same. After 18 seasons of more or less the same (counting that Live season) it really gets boring and they will not win new viewers as we see season after season that numbers are not so great.

What I think would help is a new concept. I think many hardcore fans but also casuals like that Primetime/Road to the Octagon type of production. So instead of living in the house they should first scout for really good prospect in good gyms. Then coaches pick guys they wanna coach, they come in and help that fighter develop his game more over 2 weeks while they are shooting everything about life of that fighter like in Primetime. Show where he lives, what he thinks, how he became a fighter, some sad or family story. At the end of two episodes, giving more time for people to know them, two fighters get into a fight. After 8 episodes winners (4 of them) get two more episodes for every match up to again show more training and show fans how fun training BJJ, wrestling and striking can be. What is training all about, show to casual that this is a sport, show how much knowledge in all those areas

I think this concept would give few beneficial things: less fighters in the show which is actually a good thing because then they would have to pick really good prospects because they wouldn't waste time and two episodes on Let me bang bro guy, more time to show real training of skills, more time for audience to really know the fighters and get to like them, more acceptable to the casual fans which is the point of TUF to get more new viewers and at the end really make us care when these guys get into UFC and the most important to educate new fans and casuals what this sport is all about, skills.

Of course problem would me managing few fighters by one coach if they are in different states but that could be managed with good time planing.

What would your new concept be? I think they really need to change something, they can't do this for another 18 seasons...or they can? I know I will keep on watch but don't know about the casuals

I like your idea but I don't see it as particularly feasible. TUF is already a huge investment into each fighters who is showcased on the show. Your idea sounds like it would involve an even greater investment in these fighters. There is a reason they don't do a Primetime episode for every main event, let alone every new fighter or each fighter on the show (/2). So it would be taking a massive investment risk that they don't particularly need to take.

Personally, I don't find it boring at all. This is for the same reason that I don't find PPVs boring. Each one is similar but different. I have never seen two fights that were the same. I've never seen two episodes of TUF that were the same. I still tune in every season regardless of whether I am excited for that season or any of the fighters. Why? I enjoy watching fights and that's what they spend 75% of an episode showing.

I also don't support the idea that the numbers aren't great. FOX says the numbers are decent. The UFC is very happy with the numbers. Who am I to say that because it isn't the No.1 show during primetime that it isn't doing well. You cannot compare the numbers to anything other than their targets and history. Looking at anything else is comparing apples to minivans. Finally, the numbers also do not indicate that they are not attracting new viewers. Your assumption here is that because they have not increased that there are no new viewers. You have also said that most people are bored with this format which would imply that they would be less likely to watch. And yet your assumption implies that they ALL watch anyways, which seems unlikely. I think it is more likely that they are still attracting new fans through the show.

Keep in mind that they just got onto a network a year ago and attracting new viewers means that they will have never seen the show before and therefore it would not be stale to them. So it sounds like the justification for changing things up would be to maintain current viewership rather than attract new viewers, based on your and my assumptions.

Sorry, I clearly don't have any ideas on how to change it up as I'm not in the mindset.

 

[ArtOfDrowning]

I like your idea but I don't see it as particularly feasible. TUF is already a huge investment into each fighters who is showcased on the show. Your idea sounds like it would involve an even greater investment in these fighters. There is a reason they don't do a Primetime episode for every main event, let alone every new fighter or each fighter on the show (/2). So it would be taking a massive investment risk that they don't particularly need to take.

Personally, I don't find it boring at all. This is for the same reason that I don't find PPVs boring. Each one is similar but different. I have never seen two fights that were the same. I've never seen two episodes of TUF that were the same. I still tune in every season regardless of whether I am excited for that season or any of the fighters. Why? I enjoy watching fights and that's what they spend 75% of an episode showing.

I also don't support the idea that the numbers aren't great. FOX says the numbers are decent. The UFC is very happy with the numbers. Who am I to say that because it isn't the No.1 show during primetime that it isn't doing well. You cannot compare the numbers to anything other than their targets and history. Looking at anything else is comparing apples to minivans. Finally, the numbers also do not indicate that they are not attracting new viewers. Your assumption here is that because they have not increased that there are no new viewers. You have also said that most people are bored with this format which would imply that they would be less likely to watch. And yet your assumption implies that they ALL watch anyways, which seems unlikely. I think it is more likely that they are still attracting new fans through the show.

Keep in mind that they just got onto a network a year ago and attracting new viewers means that they will have never seen the show before and therefore it would not be stale to them. So it sounds like the justification for changing things up would be to maintain current viewership rather than attract new viewers, based on your and my assumptions.

Sorry, I clearly don't have any ideas on how to change it up as I'm not in the mindset.

Yeah money is probably the big part of the problem for such Primetime type of concept for TUF. Maybe they can do kinda like Primetime but not as expensive, meaning less montage and more raw gym footage which would again be good for sport. Show 2 min of actual BJJ training so casual can see the difference between arm bar and triangle attempts. Maybe with one experiment season and good marketing they could really make a splash, like new TUF 1 season and bring a lot new fans into this. Bigger show, bigger sponsors, more money

As for ratings I know Fox Sport is a new channel and numbers TUF is doing are actually the leading numbers on Fox Sports so they are killing it, I'm just saying I think they can make a lot more, the potential to make even better show is there.

I guess they will not change concept as you have a good point that new viewers on Fox maybe didn't watch previous 17 seasons but I do think there is not so many new viewers as they are people who watched TUF before and just followed where UFC went, happens to be new Fox Sport channel. Maybe I'm wrong but just a feeling.

I know nothing of this will happen because why fix it if it's not broken..until TUF really drops below some really low numbers and they just cancel the whole thing

 

[EndlessCritic]

as a fight fan, i want more fights

tuf can improve by giving me 2 fights an episode.

 

[Presinator]

If you've watched every season of TUF, you need to re-think your life before figuring out how to fix a broken TV show.

 

[EndlessCritic]

If you've watched every season of TUF, you need to re-think your life before figuring out how to fix a broken TV show.

I've watched every season of TUF. It's an incredible show, and every single season produced great fighters.

 

[Presinator]

Seriously though, the biggest problem with TUF is the lack of talent on the show. There's no financial incentive for great fighters to go on TUF when they can do better avoiding the show, and I don't think the UFC is willing to invest $40,000+ per fight to put serious talent on the show.

 

[DCarf]

I've watched every season of TUF. It's an incredible show, and every single season produced great fighters.

Name me a great fighter from each season(Not Saying there wasn't just curious):

 

[Sasquatch Smith]

Honestly, as stupid as it seems...maybe it would be interesting if they went back to having team games and challenges and shit like they had the first season. It may be corny but it was an interesting way to get to know what each of the guys was like, how good of shape they're in, etc. I don't remember much about it aside from a distinct memory of Forrest Griffin carrying a fire hose up a staircase in some sort of race.

 

[EndlessCritic]

1: Forrest/Diego/Florian

2: Rashad Evans (also Guillard, Burkman, Stevenson)

3: Bisping

4: Serra, Lytle, Cote, Lutter

5: Diaz, Maynard, Lauzon

6: Sotiropoulos, Danzig

7: Matt fucking Brown.

8: Ryan Bader (Also lawlor, roop, magalhaes)

9: Ross Pearson

10: Roy Nelson

11: Costa Phillipou (also Court Mcgee, Nick Ring, Chris Camozzi, highly underrated Brad Tavares, Seth Bacynzski)

12: This one and 13 are tough. Caceres is a legit threat at BW. Michael Johnson/Nam Phan and bellator's mike richman are all still relevant.

13: Writeoff of a season. Tony ferguson is the only good fighter from it. Although, he's only lost in the ufc to a fellow TUF'er.

14: Dodson, Dillashaw, Siler, Bermudez, Brandao, Brimage, Caraway, Corassani this is widely considered the best season ever.

15: Second best season imo: Myles Jury, Al iaquinta, jon tuck, james vick, james krause, michael chiesa are all legit.

16: Underrated season. We will see what the future holds for Smith and Ricci. Strange that people have written Smith off for losing to Whittaker -- a fellow TUF'er.

17: Gastelum is legit

International seasons:

Brazil 1: Rony jason, cezar mutante, francisco trinaldo, sergio moraes, daniel sarafian are all legit. (And please don't say sarafian sucks for losing to dollaway, because dollaway is a TUF'er)

Brazil 2: Nobody has fought yet

Smashes: Whittaker and Parke both have bright futures in the UFC. Whittaker just beat the TUF 16 winner then lost to the TUF 11 winner. Parke is fighting a TUF 15'er next in Jon Tuck.


Every fucking season has produced a relevant contender. Every single one. You have to actively not be a fan of MMA to not watch this show, considering its track record for producing relevant fighters. Literally every single UFC card features multiple fighters who got their start from TUF.

Of course UFC 165 has 12's Caceres, Brazil 1's Forte, 16's Ricci, 15's Jury, 14's Delorme, 10's Schaub and Mitrione, 11's Philippou.

But hey, TUF doesn't produce relevant fighters, right?

 

[Presinator]

I've watched every season of TUF. It's an incredible show, and every single season produced great fighters.

Rashad Evans is the only truly great fighter the show has produced. Forrest was a fluke. Aside from that, the show has produced a couple of contenders, a gaggle of gatekeepers, and a fleet of flunkies.

 

[Presinator]

Every fucking season has produced a relevant contender. Every single one. You have to actively not be a fan of MMA to not watch this show, considering its track record for producing relevant fighters. Literally every single UFC card features multiple fighters who got their start from TUF.

Of course UFC 165 has 12's Caceres, Brazil 1's Forte, 16's Ricci, 15's Jury, 14's Delorme, 10's Schaub and Mitrione, 11's Philippou.

But hey, TUF doesn't produce relevant fighters, right?

Most people don't want to invest 12 hours of their time to bring out 1 or 2 fighters who MIGHT make it to the top 10 and probably will never even get a sniff at UFC gold. I count at least 11 seasons where it's probable that no fighter will ever earn a title shot.

If every season had a couple Rashad Evans level prospects then maybe I'd watch (I'm watching this current season anyway for female prospects). But I don't want to spend 12 hours just to unearth an Amir Sadollah, or a Court McGee, etc.

Also, creating undercard fodder does not validate the show.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Most people don't want to invest 12 hours of their time to bring out 1 or 2 fighters who MIGHT make it to the top 10 and probably will never even get a sniff at UFC gold. .

So you're saying most people don't want to watch MMA, because that's true of all UFC prelims. Most guys you see won't ever amount to top 10 fighters. You watch because you'll find a couple of diamonds in the rough along the way while getting to watch great fights.

That's the fucking point of TUF. You can't guarantee a star from every season because 1: Stars are incredibly rare, and 2: Nobody knows how things are going to play out. Nobody thought Evans was going to amount to anything after TUF 2, and nobody thought Griffin would ever be champ.

 

[CountOfSoCal]

Rashad Evans is the only truly great fighter the show has produced. Forrest was a fluke. Aside from that, the show has produced a couple of contenders, a gaggle of gatekeepers, and a fleet of flunkies.

Yet Forrest was beating Rashad in their fight, and he's a fluke?

 

[Presinator]

Yet Forrest was beating Rashad in their fight, and he's a fluke?

Did he win? Rashad is a waaaaaaay better fighter than Forrest.

 

[Presinator]

So you're saying most people don't want to watch MMA, because that's true of all UFC prelims. Most guys you see won't ever amount to top 10 fighters. You watch because you'll find a couple of diamonds in the rough along the way while getting to watch great fights.

That's the fucking point of TUF. You can't guarantee a star from every season because 1: Stars are incredibly rare, and 2: Nobody knows how things are going to play out. Nobody thought Evans was going to amount to anything after TUF 2, and nobody thought Griffin would ever be champ.

In the past the UFC was at least picking out of a better prospect pool. Now, good prospects are brought directly into the UFC leaving TUF to either really unproven guys, or guys who just aren't that good.

BTW, people knew that Evans and Griffin were good before they got on TUF. The show made it seem like Evans was an underdog, but he was favored beforehand by a lot of people who knew something about what he'd done pre-TUF.

 

[EndlessCritic]

In the past the UFC was at least picking out of a better prospect pool. Now, good prospects are brought directly into the UFC leaving TUF to either really unproven guys, or guys who just aren't that good.

See, you're full of shit.

Seriously, look at the men's records of this season's cast of TUF

Christopher Beal (7-0), 28, Somis, Calif.
Cody Bollinger (14-3), 22, Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
Louis Fisette (6-1), 23, Winnipeg, CAN
Rafael Freitas (6-0-1), 29, Albuquerque, N.M.
David Grant (8-1), 27, Bishop Auckland, ENG
Tim Gorman (9-2), 30, West Des Moines, Iowa
Anthony Gutierrez (4-0), 22, Lee’s Summit, Mo.
Emil Hartsner (4-0), 23, Luberod, SWE
Joshua Hill (9-0), 26, Binbrook, CAN
Chris Holdsworth (4-0), 25, Woodland Hills, Calif.
Patrick Holohan (9-0-1), 25, Dublin, IRL
Sirwan Kakai (9-1), 23, Coconut Creek, Fla.
Daniel Martinez (18-4), 28, San Diego, Calif.
Matthew Munsey (4-1), 26, Hollywood, Fla.
Lee Sandmeier (9-0), 30, Knoxville, Iowa
Michael Wootten (6-0), 24, Liverpool, ENG


Mostly undefeated fighters who just haven't got a step up in competition yet. TUF pits them against each other tournament style, and you hope one of them emerges to be at the elite level. There are no guarantees that any will be top 10, but you *gasp* have to watch to find out. If you like watching fights, you will.

Honestly, if a 9-0 Josh Hill fought a 9-0 Patrick Holohan in Bellator or in the UFC, people would be calling it a competitive matchup between undefeated prospects. They fight each other on TUF and all of a sudden the fight sucks? Get the fuck out of here.

 

[Presinator]

See, you're full of shit.

Seriously, look at the men's records of this season's cast of TUF

Christopher Beal (7-0), 28, Somis, Calif.
Cody Bollinger (14-3), 22, Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
Louis Fisette (6-1), 23, Winnipeg, CAN
Rafael Freitas (6-0-1), 29, Albuquerque, N.M.
David Grant (8-1), 27, Bishop Auckland, ENG
Tim Gorman (9-2), 30, West Des Moines, Iowa
Anthony Gutierrez (4-0), 22, Lee

 

[EndlessCritic]

There are a few decent fighters this season. It's better than some previous seasons for sure. But there have been a lot of terrible seasons.

Btw, I've seen Josh Hill fight live a few times. He's real boring.

I've been following Josh Hill's entire career (bias: I work in Hamilton). Josh Hill isn't a boring fighter. He's just so much better than everyone he fights that they have no answer for his takedowns.

The moment he meets someone on his level I guarantee you it will be a good scrap.

Kind of like how people call GSP and Fitch boring fighters, yet GSP vs Fitch was a super entertaining fight. It's because fitch and gsp aren't boring -- their opponents just refuse to take risks.


Also, I strongly reject that this season is an outlier. TUF Brazil 2, TUF Smashes, 16, and 17 all had casts with similarly very good records.

 

[jiujitsuforever]

i like your idea, i want to see more prospects and not just anyone that applies, sign young guys that have a mass of potential and focus on the fighting and not the jersey shore drama..this is mma not reality mtv series