New BJJ Blue Belt vs National Champ Judo Black Belt?

[Falufalump]

That's the crazy thing, nothing serious happened. I went to belly down just like I normally do and when I turned my upper body my ribs just...well basically exploded.

I have some rib problems, that is actually the 4th time I've broke my ribs. The first three times I broke them on my right side and the last time (and in that video) I broke them on the left. My ribs havent ever healed correctly and like many people that have broken their ribs in the past I have knobs and protrusions that shouldnt be there. It's more than a little annoying (continuously breaking them, not the knobs and protrusions LoL)

Why is it they perpetually break? Is someone not getting their milk?!

 

[Supereem]

Well I am a brand new blue belt, and decided to go ahead and compete at the US Open... what they hay right? Well my first match is against (obviously a blue belt in BJJ) a national champ judo black belt... am I totally fucked?

Just looking for any advice to calm my nerves lol. Any tips to break down a judoka? Any places they hate being?

Thanks!

I have seen a national Judo champ from JAPAN lose in a local white belt
competition!

Work on your guard and you should be fine, Judo's newaza is sometimes very overrated. (sorry Judoka)

 

[dwright2]

Pull guard...

I agree - pull guard.

 

[STILLKICKING]

I have seen a national Judo champ from JAPAN lose in a local white belt
competition!

Work on your guard and you should be fine, Judo's newaza is sometimes very overrated. (sorry Judoka)

Who was this "national Judo champ from JAPAN"

 

[Pathogenic]

lol

^^^Damn, u beat me to it.

I keep hearing the funniest things about Judo lately since the rule change. Shoot on a Judoka in the gi, he hasnt competed with leg attacks since what? January? Even though anyone who's been training Judo for longer then a few months has definitely trained them considering they've been legal for over a century. He'll be clueless.

I have never seen morote gari performed once in the time I've been training. I was under the mistaken impression that they have been banned for at least the two years I've been training. My mistake. I looked it up, and you are right.

 

[judogido]

Judo's newaza is sometimes very overrated. (sorry Judoka)

Actually, I think judo newaza is fairly well rated.

People usually say judo players are not as good in the ground compared to BJJers. That is correct.

They say judo newaza is neglected in favour of throws - also true (the same as BJJ takedowns are neglected in favour of groundwork)

They say judo newaza is strongly biased to judo competition rules - again, perfectly true.

However - these are generalisations and occasionally you get someone like Canto or Komuro who are much better in newaza than the average.

 

[AwesomeSquad]

Actually I'd be tempted to say get really low and shoot for a double right away. Unless he has a a really good sprawl from a failed shot it is pretty simple to pull guard and who the hell knows you might actually get a takedown.

I agree. Go out there like you are gonna grip fight, feint high and shoot HARD. If he does grab you though you had better get to the ground on your terms, I imagine his terms would be less pleasant.

 

[AwesomeSquad]

i bet the judo black belt is anticipating the pull guard & drilling stuff to counter it. dive for the leg ala imanari. that might disorient him for a couple of seconds.

Good point. Now i REALLY think you should shoot. Either a low single or a huge double, I would be hesitant to single leg him as I'm sure he has pretty good balance.

 

[Supereem]

Who was this "national Judo champ from JAPAN"

What you don't fucking believe me? Eat shit. I THINK his name was Suzuke, and he had other Japanese guys there giving him instructions in Japanese. Also he was a champion at the blackbelt level, and he fought at 73kg, so take that for what its worth.

 

[Supereem]

Actually, I think judo newaza is fairly well rated.

People usually say judo players are not as good in the ground compared to BJJers. That is correct.

They say judo newaza is neglected in favour of throws - also true (the same as BJJ takedowns are neglected in favour of groundwork)

They say judo newaza is strongly biased to judo competition rules - again, perfectly true.

However - these are generalisations and occasionally you get someone like Canto or Komuro who are much better in newaza than the average.

They are not clueless, and sure some are REALLY good, like Yoshida (chocked the shit out of Royce and Tamura) and that Korean guy who Saku KOd in his debut (forgot his name). But I think in general, alot of Judo practitioners really lack technical ability on the ground. For instance, I was watching a big Judo comp on tv a while ago, and for the brief moments on the ground alot of them were making really amateur mistakes, such as turning away from locked in armbars.

I just think its because of the Judo rules that limits their focus in some gyms, and I think this is becoming more popular because many Judoka don't really give a shit about real life fighting, MMA or competeing against BJJ guys.


This is coming from someone who got into martial arts watching Fedor (who is basically a judoka) toss and armbar people and thinking it was the ultimate ground technique ever! But personal experiences has kinda changed my mind.

 

[Nickynoneck]

Go for low attacks watch some stuff with like jt in it start very low , just watch the judoka's top game it can nuteralize your game , sometimes you can start rolling and 5 mins later your still in half guard trying to work something because there top games can be so suffocating .

 

[ElKarlo]

Pull guard and go for toeholds!

 

[georgejjr]

What you don't fucking believe me? Eat shit. I THINK his name was Suzuke, and he had other Japanese guys there giving him instructions in Japanese. Also he was a champion at the blackbelt level, and he fought at 73kg, so take that for what its worth.

Of course I believe you, the people from the internet make sure everything said on it is true. And I've seen a Brazilian national black belt BJJ champion lose in a white belt judo competition. He was fighting under 73 kg as well, and his name was Silva. If you don't believe me, eat sh*t :icon_chee

Look, all you need to do to convince me, and probably every other skeptic, is to supply a video. National judo champions are a big deal in Japan, and every competition they fight in recorded, often by national level TV. They're even recorded when they do charity events, or play golf etc. This one should be easy for you to produce.

The thing is, some international level judo players do have pretty bad ne-waza (and some like Nakamura who could hang with Roger Gracie for ten minutes quite good). But the few times where Olympic level competitors have entered blue belt BJJ tournaments they tend to win on pure athleticism alone. This is in fact documented (for instance Jiu Jitsu Forum - Mikael Marffy at 2008 European BJJ Championships). Or look at how Pawel Nastula (old and retired from judo, so not even at the level of your typical Japanese national judo champ) did against Big Nog - it took Nog most of a Pride round to beat him. Is Big Nog really just a BJJ white belt level grappler? Nog's ground skills are way better than Nastula's, but on pure athleticism Nastula was able to hang for 8 minutes with him. It would be an unusual white belt that could counter that level of athleticism, so it'd be very nice to see a video ...

An Olympic level athlete in almost any sport losing at a white belt level is pretty unusual, simply because of the difference in athleticism. Its like expecting a white belt to be able to beat an NFL player - it could happen, but its rare. So footage would be nice.

 

[thebully]

like Yoshida (chocked the shit out of Royce )

bad stoppage

subsequently yoshida endured a beatdown

 

[georgejjr]

bad stoppage

subsequently yoshida endured a beatdown

Though it was officially a draw (on the rules insisted upon by Royce ironically enough). In fact both contests are officially draws, so the two are 0-2-0.

A bigger issue was that neither Yoshida nor Royce would have been in the top 500 in the world in their weight division in judo or BJJ at the time they fought ... it was a money making scheme for two guys who were no longer relevant to judo or BJJ, but who had recognizable names. How they marketed that as judo vs BJJ is pretty interesting - neither guy would have lasted even a minute against a top 100 guy in his sport at that point, and that's probably being generous.

 

[DeLaSeoul87]

Actually I'd be tempted to say get really low and shoot for a double right away. Unless he has a a really good sprawl from a failed shot it is pretty simple to pull guard and who the hell knows you might actually get a takedown.

Double legs are no longer allowed in Judo competitions. You actually can't reach below the belt for a take down (e.g. fireman's carry).

 

[RacerX]

They are allowed as counters or follow-ups. They can also be used if the opponent uses a cross over back grip.

http://judonw.org/wordpresstest/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/2010-Technical-Memo-NW-Judo.pdf

I still think the change makes Judo less effective in other contests and for self defense.

 

[Rod1]

bad stoppage

subsequently yoshida endured a beatdown

Bad stoppage? sorry man, but if someone seems to be beign choked and suddenly goes limp, im assuming he is out.

Second fight was an MMA match where Yoshida came out with gi and Royce came out without a gi, i don't believe in style vs style because its all about the individual, but Yoshida is by far the better grappler, Royce may be the better MMA fighter.

 

[YeahBee]

What about hunting a standing backtake?

I have a judo background but obviously not a national champ or level but I am always punished by that

 

[Rod1]

I think it depends on the wrestler. If you're fighting a tap and shoot wrestler, yeah, he's toast. If you are talking about a wrestler with a crazy clinch/greco game, then nope. Once we learn to use and defend grips we're a problem for even high level judoka. At least this has been my personal experience.

I think it depends more on the judoka, if the judoka is willing to clinch with the wrestler, the wrestler has a big chance, if the judoka decides to use footwork then the wrestler has no chance unless he too trained extensively in footwork.

Judo and wrestling are too similar in clinch, but the footwork that happens in judo which is allowed entirely by the grips it virtually non-existent in wrestling.

lol, yeah that happened a few times... :redface: till I learned to deal with grips a little bit. Now it's a diff game.

Its not the grips per se, its what the grips allow, in the clinch a wrestler its going to be very comfortable, but if you can't learn the footwork, then you can't stop it and if you can't, you are done.

I'm gonna have to say no. We deal with many of the same throws and a higher level and more diversified series of leg takedowns with more counters and techniques to use from a sprawl.

But judo throws are much easier because of the grip and the movement. The grips allow for a wider variety of throws and from less advantageous position. In the same sense, the grips make judokas grow a reliance of them for throwing and as such hav a harder time throwing without a gi.

At the end of the day, wrestling = judo, both are great sister arts and I believe it will really just boil down to gi/nogi.

Exactly, wrestling dominates wrestling and judo dominates judo. In the end they are similar upfront but mastering them requires deep specific training in them, that's why you don't have guys winning both.