New Atheist lies #1: Not accepting their own

[Nnedd]

If you say you did something because of your religion, then I think it is fair to ask for scriptural support.

When people in power do horrible things, lets attribute it to the correct thing.
If you are a practicing and believing christian, please post scriptural support for genocide of the jews,
but not only this, you will specifically be sent to hell forever

So, if you truly believe the bible how can you mastermind the Holocaust? You cannot. Period.

If you cannot provide scriptural support, you did not do it because you are a christian, you did it for X reason--whether you are a psychopath or bent on world domination or racist to the point of racial murder--I don't know.

If a Christian man knowingly sins, against the bible, does he remain a Christian man?

Even if he says he's doing it for his religion, he might be lying. Lying is a sin.

Is a lying man automatically not a Christian?

 

[Cracky]

You could just as easily say that the state is a tool to control the weak and the poor. There are many ways that those in power control the people. Religion is one tool.

I think the ultimate totalitarian system would not have any belief in God, because the state itself would fill that role.

Religion is a tool to determine the leaders of states.. so it still comes back to religion.. don't believe me.. ? Go to church pre-election next year

 

[IDL]

Religion is a tool to determine the leaders of states.. so it still comes back to religion.. don't believe me.. ? Go to church pre-election next year

One of many. In the absence of religion the game is still the same. Leaders saying whatever it takes to appeal.

 

[Medusas Weave]

Hitler was a baptized practicing Christian.

Was Christopher Hitchens baptized? Does going to church make you a practicing christian?

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...itchens-atheist-atheism-prayer/1#.VcJ6MvlSLb0
Christopher Hitchens was baptized in his infancy, and his name means "Christ-bearer."

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/11/free-and-easy/304323/
"There came a time many years ago when I decided to agree to the baptism of my firstborn. "
- Christopher Hitchens

Oh, so CH was baptised a christian and remained one until death, right?

 

[TSO]

If you say you did something because of your religion, then I think it is fair to ask for scriptural support.

When people in power do horrible things, lets attribute it to the correct thing.
If you are a practicing and believing christian, please post scriptural support for genocide of the jews,
but not only this, you will specifically be sent to hell forever

So, if you truly believe the bible how can you mastermind the Holocaust? You cannot. Period.

If you cannot provide scriptural support, you did not do it because you are a christian, you did it for X reason--whether you are a psychopath or bent on world domination or racist to the point of racial murder--I don't know.

You're moving the goalposts again. You opened with "Hitler was an Atheist" and are now say "You cant use scripture to do the things he did". Those are two very different subjects and if you want to go ahead and concede that Hitler was indeed a Christian and move onto scriptural support for the holocaust we can. But you do need to first admit you were being intentionally dishonest when you claimed Hitler was not a Christian, otherwise it's hard to converse with people like you.

 

[Medusas Weave]

If a Christian man knowingly sins, against the bible, does he remain a Christian man?

Even if he says he's doing it for his religion, he might be lying. Lying is a sin.

Is a lying man automatically not a Christian?

Ok, so we are going to say you have no scriptural support. God will judge at the end, not me.

If you have true faith, would you be able to kill millions of the chosen people?

Does one sin and repent? Does one sin and not care?

Jesus came for the sinners, not the righteous.

 

[TSO]

Was Christopher Hitchens baptized? Does going to church make you a practicing christian?

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...itchens-atheist-atheism-prayer/1#.VcJ6MvlSLb0
Christopher Hitchens was baptized in his infancy, and his name means "Christ-bearer."

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/11/free-and-easy/304323/
"There came a time many years ago when I decided to agree to the baptism of my firstborn. "
- Christopher Hitchens

Oh, so CH was baptised a christian and remained one until death, right?

Once again you show just how dishonest the religious are. Hitchens only parallel with Hitler was childhood baptism, he then became a spokesman for Atheism and Anti-Theism.

Do your lies know no bounds?

 

[Cracky]

One of many. In the absence of religion the game is still the same. Leaders saying whatever it takes to appeal.

Agreed.. People are still evil and good with or without religion... Religion just makes it easier to get people to have a "mob reaction".. because it links them with beliefs that must be adhered to.. and minimalizes this life..making it easy to sacrafice for a better seat in heaven...

 

[Medusas Weave]

You're moving the goalposts again. You opened with "Hitler was an Atheist" and are now say "You cant use scripture to do the things he did". Those are two very different subjects and if you want to go ahead and concede that Hitler was indeed a Christian and move onto scriptural support for the holocaust we can. But you do need to first admit you were being intentionally dishonest when you claimed Hitler was not a Christian, otherwise it's hard to converse with people like you.

I am in no way conceding that hitler was a christian. read my OP. Maybe I should adjust it. Hitler was not a christian as he eyed political office. As a child he might have been in the same way CH was.
But when they were old enough to chose what they believe, they both gave up religion if they were ever true believers.

But if you are going to say anyone baptised is a christian and not an atheist, then almost all the new atheists if not all would be christian (or maybe some jewish since they had a jewish mother).

I posted hitler talking to his closest friends about hating religion and wanting to wipe out christianity
I posted his actions against the catholic church and protestants.

Any expert on hitler would say the same.

Your argument is completely worthless so have fun with it.

 

[Medusas Weave]

Once again you show just how dishonest the religious are. Hitchens only parallel with Hitler was childhood baptism, he then became a spokesman for Atheism and Anti-Theism.

Do your lies know no bounds?

Hitler actively persecuted christianity and murdered millions of jews and planned to completely remove christianity.

CH talked and made atheist books. CH talked the talk. Hitler walked the walk (of atheism)

 

[TSO]

I am in no way conceding that hitler was a christian. read my OP. Maybe I should adjust it. Hitler was not a christian as he eyed political office. As a child he might have been in the same way CH was.
But when they were old enough to chose what they believe, they both gave up religion if they were ever true believers.

But if you are going to say anyone baptised is a christian and not an atheist, then almost all the new atheists if not all would be christian (or maybe some jewish since they had a jewish mother).

I posted hitler talking to his closest friends about hating religion and wanting to wipe out christianity
I posted his actions against the catholic church and protestants.

Any expert on hitler would say the same.

Your argument is completely worthless so have fun with it.

From the time Hitler was baptized until his death he was a practicing Christian. This isn't up for debate, he's on fucking film participating in religious ceremonies and has supported and been supported by the catholic church his entire life. You don't just get to make up your own history and then say none of this counts towards him being a christian.

 

[TSO]

Hitler actively persecuted christianity and murdered millions of jews and planned to completely remove christianity.

CH talked and made atheist books. CH talked the talk. Hitler walked the walk (of atheism)

Okay, your troll job is complete. You got me, I thought you were serious for a while there.

 

[dontsnitch]

From the time Hitler was baptized until his death he was a practicing Christian. This isn't up for debate, he's on fucking film participating in religious ceremonies and has supported and been supported by the catholic church his entire life. You don't just get to make up your own history and then say none of this counts towards him being a christian.

Even if Hitler was a Christian, what's your point? You set the bar pretty high when talking about what it takes to be a true Christian, selling all your belongings and such, but here you state that all you need to do is go to religious ceremonies.

 

[Medusas Weave]

You said Hitler wasn't Christian because no practicing Christian would do what he did.

You are basically offering that as evidence to support his atheism.


In that vein, all discussion about atrocities committed by practicing Christians is fair game.

Or is your evidence beyond examination?

Religion is used as a tool by the powerful. But that is not the purpose of religion. The purpose of judiasm and christianity is for God to reveal his intent and to tell us how we should live according to Him and for out salvation.

Democracy (or democratic republic) is not about war--it is about people being able to elect leaders
But it sure as fuck is used to start many wars (korea and vietnam)
Should we give up democracy for being too warlike and violent?

 

[Medusas Weave]

Even if Hitler was a Christian, what's your point? You set the bar pretty high when talking about what it takes to be a true Christian, selling all your belongings and such, but here you state that all you need to do is go to religious ceremonies.

Oh, I am sure TSO would say that a completely straight man who banged 10s and had facial hair and chest hair and did all manly things
but
liked to dress in women's clothes for one hour a week would call this person a woman and would seriously think this person could get pregnant.

 

[dontsnitch]

Oh, I am sure TSO would say that a completely straight man who banged 10s and had facial hair and chest hair and did all manly things
but
liked to dress in women's clothes for one hour a week would call this person a woman and would seriously think this person could get pregnant.

It doesn't bother me if people want to argue that Hitler was Christian, it has no relevance on Christianity. When you define something however you like, it loses all meaning to begin with.

 

[Cygnus A]

Since there seems to be a thread attacking X religion constantly, an opposite POV thread should be fair play, plus I will make mine objective and factual.

Long story short, the new atheists are not experts in theology or/and philosophy.
IMO they do what they do not for love or hate or to educate, but to make money selling books and talking and etc promoting their atheist world view.
IMO they make horrible arguments. Usually just outright lies and the worst readings of religious text possible.
But this is about how horrible their arguments are and how much they are reaching.

Most people think Hitler is an atheist. We have the most support for this POV. Not saying being an atheist makes you a Hitler, but I think it would be very hard for a practicing and believing christian to murder millions of people especially the jews aka God's people.

A common thing for the new atheists to say is that Hitler was not an atheist but he was a Christian.

Here is their proof:
https://richarddawkins.net/2014/10/the-atheist-atrocities-fallacy-hitler-stalin-pol-pot/

 

[IDL]

Agreed.. People are still evil and good with or without religion... Religion just makes it easier to get people to have a "mob reaction".. because it links them with beliefs that must be adhered to.. and minimalizes this life..making it easy to sacrafice for a better seat in heaven...

Yes, a group sharing a common religion is certainly responsive to religious based propaganda. Although there is no group that cannot be moved into mob like fashion by tailoring the propaganda to their situation.

The poor, promise them wealth. The rich, promise them power. In general, drum up a threat to their well being (external enemy, economic, etc). Scare them, make promises, confuse them. It seems to work on everyone. And if in an authoritarian regime, then ordering them and punishing them works too

But I do agree that religion is a good way to mobilize people, for better or for worse. I see it as a double edged sword.

 

[ShadBo]

Hitler's birthday was celebrated from the pulpit by order of the Vatican until 1945.

Hitchens did a good job of reminding us that in the lead up to WWII, you can replace the word "fascism" with "Catholic right wing." It was the same thing.

 

[TSO]

Even if Hitler was a Christian, what's your point? You set the bar pretty high when talking about what it takes to be a true Christian, selling all your belongings and such, but here you state that all you need to do is go to religious ceremonies.

After you cry and ask to not be paid attention to don't try and get back into the conversation and skip the post you cried uncle to.