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Stoic, Yes Ive done my fair share of grappling. You are free to enter the tournament at an intermediate, to advanced level, and execute all types of leglocks.
 
see the post below....i forgot to quote the person i was responding to.
 
Stoic1 said:
I'm sure I will be in the minority by disagreeing.

But let me explain why I think that toe holds are just as dangerous if not more so than kneebars. First and foremost what are you doing with the foot when you apply the toehold? You are TWISTING it. That is how serious damage is done to the knee. I will admit that the foot/ankle usually goes first but there is no denying that the knee also takes quite a bit of rotational torque. You see where I am going here?

Let me continue on that for a moment. The knee was not designed for rotational torque. It was meant to go front to back. You see where I am going here? And in that motion it has LARGE muscle groups which propel that action. Big quadraceps that extend the leg and big hamstrings that pull it back. There are no muscle groups that turn the knee.

Think about it for a minute. There is no real muscle that can stop the knee from turning when force is applied, as in heel hooks and toe holds so the rotational force stops at the knee and something tears. Whereas with a kneebar you have muscles that can actually resist the extension. You have big hamstring muscles that can resist the force of the jointlock. I am not saying that this protects you from injury. I am saying that you can resist it to some degree and that will save you from serious injury. It will give you the time you need in order to make the correct decision on whether to submit or not. The joint is much like the elbow joint which we consider an acceptible target to attack. It is a hinge joint and it is MUCH weaker than the knee joint. Double standards here. And the EXACT same mechanics are used to attack with a straight armlock that we do to the kneebar. Pull with both hands, lift the hips, etc. The same force is applied and yet the kneebar is getting a worse rap than the toehold. I call bullshit.

I am certainly not saying get rid of straight armlocks. I am simply pointing out the knee joint works just like the elbow AND it has muscle groups to oppose the extension. The knee joint does not have the musculature to resist rotational force like the kind applied by toe holds. What I am saying is that you should get rid of toeholds before you get rid of kneebars but IMHO both should be allowed at intermediate divisions and up.


actually, there is a BIG difference between the two different types of "toe holds"..... An "inside" toe hold is really no big deal, and is basically similar to a straight ankle lock, just slightly angled more to the inside. The ankle normally bends in this direction so it's just as safe as a straight ankle lock. You're really NOT twisting anything.....

On the other hand, a "steering wheel", or an "ankle crank" is where you figure four the guys ankle and twist the foot/ankle complex to the OUTSIDE. Now this will give you an injury similar to a heel hook. You are twisting his KNEE, and the ankle/foot does NOT bend in that direction at all, so there is really almost no give.

So an inside toe hold is really not a twisting hold, and should be OK on all levels. As long as straight ankle locks are OK'd as well.
 
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