Never ask a black belt to roll.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by jasonbass, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. jasonbass

    jasonbass Green Belt

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    I was talking to a fellow student the other day and he recalled an incident at his old gym where, as a white belt he asked a black belt to roll during the grappling portion of the class. The black belt proceeded put a Grade-A jitsu beat down on the poor fella, and directly afterwards turned to my friend and said. "Never ask a black belt to roll..."

    That kinda blew my mind. I understand if there was no class or he wasn't participating and you just barged in and threw down a gracie challenge on him, but this particular black belt was in class, as a student.

    Here at ATOS I have asked Andre a bunch of times during class to train, along with any other that happens to be there. My question is, how do you feel about asking a BB to roll under friendly circumstances? Is it down right disrespectful or a necessary part of being a black belt to begin with?
     
  2. All In The Game

    All In The Game Green Belt

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    i dunno man prolly the gym or something
    I thought the whole point of rolling with black belts was to get beat down...
     
  3. Cross

    Cross <img src="http://i40.tinypic.com/16gj0hi.pgn">

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    I'm a white belt and while I've never rolled with a black belt, but I have rolled with everything under that. The brown never pulled anything like that even though he could have destroyed me at any moment. He definitely schools me but he gives me some gifts, too, So I can learn the moves and how they're supposed to feel.
     
  4. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    i was told by a few blackbelts that they feel liek they are challanging them. like testing to see how good the instructor is. i think its bs imo, i ask my coach to roll all the time and hes fine with it
     
  5. KGB256

    KGB256 Purple Belt

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    You usually have to ask our black belts to roll. They're there to train, so if you want time with them you have to ask or they'll just grab someone on their own.

    At some schools though, they consider it disrespectful to ask a higher belt to roll. I guess in those schools, the advanced belts just have to make an effort to occasionally ask white belts to roll.
     
  6. padirk165

    padirk165 Yellow Belt

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    Sounds like a black belt with a power complex, not someone I would want to train with. At our school and most I have been to you can ask a black belt to roll but if he wants to roll with someone else he just says no and grabs another partner. The higher belts can generally shuffle around groups however they want at our school and you usually wouldnt say no to rolling with a higher belt if they ask, but I have never seen the system abused or anyone get beat up for asking a higher belt to roll.
     
  7. indulf

    indulf Orange Belt

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    ive rolled with 2 black belts. they completely tooled me but weren't rough or mad and definitely didn't act like they felt disrespected.

    in fact, after every submission, and sometimes during the middle of our roll, they would take the time to instruct me and correct some of my mistakes. they have always been gracious.
     
  8. tirofijo

    tirofijo Banned Banned

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    I won't ask. Partly out of what is an old school tradition, but mostly out of respect for the time they put on the mat. A BB is not going to get a lot out of rolling with me. I'm not good enough to give them much of a challenge.

    BB aren't gods and I don't bow down before them, but if they are wearing a BB then they've put enough time on the mat to earn the right to pick their training partners.

    At least that's how I see it.

    It doesn't mean you are wrong. (I've rolled with Andre in a class, too. But he invited me.:D)

    Judging by the responses, I guess the "never ask a higher belt to roll" is an outdated tradition.
     
  9. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    I ask blackbelts to roll all the time. Only the ones that aren't actually that amazing get offended over it.
     
  10. ElKarlo

    ElKarlo Steel Belt

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    Prolly a throw back to when BBs were rare. Now it's lame
     
  11. King Creatine

    King Creatine Purple Belt

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    Stupid tradition bred from conservative culture, but maintained through insecurity and control issues. Lame.
     
  12. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

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    That guy should not be wearing a blackbelt then. Rolling is rolling, it's not a place with egos. This isn't some sort of tournament or world championships.
     
  13. Sean-Roberts

    Sean-Roberts Blue Belt

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    That black belt needs his ego crushed. Im a brown belt and I would never be offended if a lower belt asked me to roll. I might turn him down for harder opponent tho. We are all students of the game.
     
  14. KESA

    KESA Purple Belt

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    its respect brah.

    you never call out a higher belt unless you are personally friends with them and do so in respectful fashion.

    in brazil they see it as a challenge
     
  15. Hamnabaki

    Hamnabaki Blue Belt

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    I think it depends on your gym or school I trained at at mma gym that a few Black belt instructors they would train with us all the time sometimes aksing if you wanted to train.

    They would normally just play off there backs and only really go harder if I did sounds like that balck belt was a dick or maybe your just at atraditional jits place and they take ranks more seriously.
     
  16. ColeslawBJJ

    ColeslawBJJ Puerto Rican Slap Boxing

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    Wow....I have never seen a black belt refuse to roll with anybody in class.
     
  17. Mooner

    Mooner Banned Banned

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    That's just stupidity. A black belt isn't some sort of privileged member of society, black belts are also students of an art.
     
  18. Gawd

    Gawd Banned Banned

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    You get used to your black belts and their moods. One of our blacks is very good at adapting his game to your level and giving you openings to exploit so that you'll constantly believe you actually have a chance.

    One of the others will crush you without mercy though.
     
  19. swirldog

    swirldog Red Belt

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    I think it depends on how well you know them and your tone. If they feel challenged, they're going to be rough.

    On my first day, the instructor made me roll with him first. I was cool and he "gently" kicked my ass and taught me a lot. Later a new younger guy showed up who spazzed on me in his very first role. THEN the instructor rolled with him. (I was "wtf" but kept my mouth shut.)

    I rolled with one other BB. I was working the heavy bag after boxing and no one else was there for open mat. He asked me to roll not knowing me and I politely explained I was a newbie white belt. (I recognized him from the gym's website.) He was supercool and it was probably my best roll ever. He explained all kinds of shit in great detail and it was essentially a private lesson. Of course, I think it was partially because I took the proper tone. Otherwise, I would have been completely fucked. And let's not even bring up the fact he is a fairly ripped 240ish HW and I walk around in the 180s.
     
  20. jasonbass

    jasonbass Green Belt

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    Interestingly enough I stopped by Ralph Gracie OC in 2008, and this purple belt who's parents owned the gym not only was cool with letting a blue belt roll with him, he even spent like half an hour in nogi showing me this move he had been working on, some sitting calf crusher...

    After watching the BJJ Kumite and talking with Brian Morizi, that purple belt apparently was you... Small world.
     

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