Never ask a black belt to roll.

[jasonbass]

I was talking to a fellow student the other day and he recalled an incident at his old gym where, as a white belt he asked a black belt to roll during the grappling portion of the class. The black belt proceeded put a Grade-A jitsu beat down on the poor fella, and directly afterwards turned to my friend and said. "Never ask a black belt to roll..."

That kinda blew my mind. I understand if there was no class or he wasn't participating and you just barged in and threw down a gracie challenge on him, but this particular black belt was in class, as a student.

Here at ATOS I have asked Andre a bunch of times during class to train, along with any other that happens to be there. My question is, how do you feel about asking a BB to roll under friendly circumstances? Is it down right disrespectful or a necessary part of being a black belt to begin with?

 

[All In The Game]

I thought the whole point of rolling with black belts was to get beat down...

 

[Cross]

I'm a white belt and while I've never rolled with a black belt, but I have rolled with everything under that. The brown never pulled anything like that even though he could have destroyed me at any moment. He definitely schools me but he gives me some gifts, too, So I can learn the moves and how they're supposed to feel.

 

[snoop dogg***]

i was told by a few blackbelts that they feel liek they are challanging them. like testing to see how good the instructor is. i think its bs imo, i ask my coach to roll all the time and hes fine with it

 

[KGB256]

I was talking to a fellow student the other day and he recalled an incident at his old gym where, as a white belt he asked a black belt to roll during the grappling portion of the class. The black belt proceeded put a Grade-A jitsu beat down on the poor fella, and directly afterwards turned to my friend and said. "Never ask a black belt to roll..."

That kinda blew my mind. I understand if there was no class or he wasn't participating and you just barged in and threw down a gracie challenge on him, but this particular black belt was in class, as a student.

Here at ATOS I have asked Andre a bunch of times during class to train, along with any other that happens to be there. My question is, how do you feel about asking a BB to roll under friendly circumstances? Is it down right disrespectful or a necessary part of being a black belt to begin with?

You usually have to ask our black belts to roll. They're there to train, so if you want time with them you have to ask or they'll just grab someone on their own.

At some schools though, they consider it disrespectful to ask a higher belt to roll. I guess in those schools, the advanced belts just have to make an effort to occasionally ask white belts to roll.

 

[padirk165]

Sounds like a black belt with a power complex, not someone I would want to train with. At our school and most I have been to you can ask a black belt to roll but if he wants to roll with someone else he just says no and grabs another partner. The higher belts can generally shuffle around groups however they want at our school and you usually wouldnt say no to rolling with a higher belt if they ask, but I have never seen the system abused or anyone get beat up for asking a higher belt to roll.

 

[indulf]

ive rolled with 2 black belts. they completely tooled me but weren't rough or mad and definitely didn't act like they felt disrespected.

in fact, after every submission, and sometimes during the middle of our roll, they would take the time to instruct me and correct some of my mistakes. they have always been gracious.

 

[tirofijo]

I won't ask. Partly out of what is an old school tradition, but mostly out of respect for the time they put on the mat. A BB is not going to get a lot out of rolling with me. I'm not good enough to give them much of a challenge.

BB aren't gods and I don't bow down before them, but if they are wearing a BB then they've put enough time on the mat to earn the right to pick their training partners.

At least that's how I see it.

It doesn't mean you are wrong. (I've rolled with Andre in a class, too. But he invited me.)

Judging by the responses, I guess the "never ask a higher belt to roll" is an outdated tradition.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

I ask blackbelts to roll all the time. Only the ones that aren't actually that amazing get offended over it.

 

[ElKarlo]

Prolly a throw back to when BBs were rare. Now it's lame

 

[King Creatine]

Stupid tradition bred from conservative culture, but maintained through insecurity and control issues. Lame.

 

[Mooner]

That guy should not be wearing a blackbelt then. Rolling is rolling, it's not a place with egos. This isn't some sort of tournament or world championships.

 

[Sean-Roberts]

I was talking to a fellow student the other day and he recalled an incident at his old gym where, as a white belt he asked a black belt to roll during the grappling portion of the class. The black belt proceeded put a Grade-A jitsu beat down on the poor fella, and directly afterwards turned to my friend and said. "Never ask a black belt to roll..."

That kinda blew my mind. I understand if there was no class or he wasn't participating and you just barged in and threw down a gracie challenge on him, but this particular black belt was in class, as a student.

Here at ATOS I have asked Andre a bunch of times during class to train, along with any other that happens to be there. My question is, how do you feel about asking a BB to roll under friendly circumstances? Is it down right disrespectful or a necessary part of being a black belt to begin with?

That black belt needs his ego crushed. Im a brown belt and I would never be offended if a lower belt asked me to roll. I might turn him down for harder opponent tho. We are all students of the game.

 

[KESA]

its respect brah.

you never call out a higher belt unless you are personally friends with them and do so in respectful fashion.

in brazil they see it as a challenge

 

[Hamnabaki]

I think it depends on your gym or school I trained at at mma gym that a few Black belt instructors they would train with us all the time sometimes aksing if you wanted to train.

They would normally just play off there backs and only really go harder if I did sounds like that balck belt was a dick or maybe your just at atraditional jits place and they take ranks more seriously.

 

[Wanderlei Industries]

Wow....I have never seen a black belt refuse to roll with anybody in class.

 

[Mooner]

its respect brah.

you never call out a higher belt unless you are personally friends with them and do so in respectful fashion.

in brazil they see it as a challenge

That's just stupidity. A black belt isn't some sort of privileged member of society, black belts are also students of an art.

 

[Gawd]

You get used to your black belts and their moods. One of our blacks is very good at adapting his game to your level and giving you openings to exploit so that you'll constantly believe you actually have a chance.

One of the others will crush you without mercy though.

 

[swirldog]

I think it depends on how well you know them and your tone. If they feel challenged, they're going to be rough.

On my first day, the instructor made me roll with him first. I was cool and he "gently" kicked my ass and taught me a lot. Later a new younger guy showed up who spazzed on me in his very first role. THEN the instructor rolled with him. (I was "wtf" but kept my mouth shut.)

I rolled with one other BB. I was working the heavy bag after boxing and no one else was there for open mat. He asked me to roll not knowing me and I politely explained I was a newbie white belt. (I recognized him from the gym's website.) He was supercool and it was probably my best roll ever. He explained all kinds of shit in great detail and it was essentially a private lesson. Of course, I think it was partially because I took the proper tone. Otherwise, I would have been completely fucked. And let's not even bring up the fact he is a fairly ripped 240ish HW and I walk around in the 180s.

 

[jasonbass]

That black belt needs his ego crushed. Im a brown belt and I would never be offended if a lower belt asked me to roll. I might turn him down for harder opponent tho. We are all students of the game.

Interestingly enough I stopped by Ralph Gracie OC in 2008, and this purple belt who's parents owned the gym not only was cool with letting a blue belt roll with him, he even spent like half an hour in nogi showing me this move he had been working on, some sitting calf crusher...

After watching the BJJ Kumite and talking with Brian Morizi, that purple belt apparently was you... Small world.