Neil Melanson purple belt submits Bill Cooper

[Sexy Pants]

There you have it boys-. Bill the Grill took some peyote! It's a hell of a drug!

 

[Sexy Pants]

Watched 3 min of the Glover match it's just bullshit JJ. Can't watch that weird garbage. Man bring back 2001. This weird shit gots to go.

 

[Terror Zone]

Watched 3 min of the Glover match it's just bullshit JJ. Can't watch that weird garbage. Man bring back 2001. This weird shit gots to go.

I'm not that extreme, I love a lot of what's going on in BJJ right now but that Glover match was just fucking ridiculous. Not sure why anyone would even feel the need to ask why one might have that opinion, it's pretty clear from a couple minutes of watching why someone might have a problem with it.

 

[dokomoy]

Watched 3 min of the Glover match it's just bullshit JJ. Can't watch that weird garbage. Man bring back 2001. This weird shit gots to go.

God I'm so sick of this shit. In the first 3 minutes both guys made serious attempts to take the back(I think both guys went for calf crusher things too but I'm not sure) and the 10th Planet guy tried to double under pass. If you don't like matches where neither guy tries to move that's fine, but you only whine about matches like this one if you 1) don't understand what's going on OR 2) understand what's going on but are offended because people use techniques that didn't exist 15 years ago or 3) you hate matches were people are evenly matched and can't impose their game on the opponent.

 

[Lance Freimuth]

I think it's fair to say the double berimbolo game is a very legit way to win under pretty much all the current rule sets.

I think it's also fair to say that the double berimbolo game would be completely unrecognizable to a lay person as grappling/fighting/combat etc. It looks like they're just rolling around and goofing off. It's gonna be hard to sell that type of grappling as a spectator sport.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Listen Ice 9 Cobra, if that is even your real name

Lolwut

 

[Sexy Pants]

God I'm so sick of this shit. In the first 3 minutes both guys made serious attempts to take the back(I think both guys went for calf crusher things too but I'm not sure) and the 10th Planet guy tried to double under pass. If you don't like matches where neither guy tries to move that's fine, but you only whine about matches like this one if you 1) don't understand what's going on OR 2) understand what's going on but are offended because people use techniques that didn't exist 15 years ago or 3) you hate matches were people are evenly matched and can't impose their game on the opponent.

Wrong I know exactly what's going on. Also the method in which the back was almost taken is as bad as your argument.

Also guys back in the day fought for dominate positions instead of flopping curling up and showing butthole guard. Get the fuck out of here. Innovation is one thing, but weird dumb shit like that match sucks. If you like No Gi- watch Leo Viera vs Matt Serra. Now that's No GI BJJ. You can thank me after. You know what your welcome

 

[dokomoy]

Wrong I know exactly what's going on. Also the method in which the back was almost taken is as bad as your argument.

Also guys back in the day fought for dominate positions instead of flopping curling up and showing butthole guard. Get the fuck out of here. Innovation is one thing, but weird dumb shit like that match sucks. If you like No Gi- watch Leo Viera vs Matt Serra. Now that's No GI BJJ. You can thank me after. You know what your welcome

This is do dumb I almost don't know how to respond

1)If the method both competitors use is so bad then why do we see so many people use it successfully in high level competition?

2)If you know what's going on then you know that when guys are "flopping curling up and showing butthole guard" they are looking to take the back or come up deep in a pass You know "fighting for a dominant position".

3)Do you really think people didn't stall 15 years ago? You can stall just as easily(if not more easily) in closed guard as you can in double guard pull.

 

[dokomoy]

I think it's fair to say the double berimbolo game is a very legit way to win under pretty much all the current rule sets.

I think it's also fair to say that the double berimbolo game would be completely unrecognizable to a lay person as grappling/fighting/combat etc. It looks like they're just rolling around and goofing off. It's gonna be hard to sell that type of grappling as a spectator sport.

Sure, I totally agree that someone who doesn't understand jiu jitsu won't know(and might not care) what's going on in those positions. But that's not what we're talking about here. The people on f12 who complain about this stuff all train and in theory understand what's going on(or could probably figure it out if they were so inclined). At least on this forum the problem isn't knowledge it's peoples attitudes. And I don't even care if they find it boring(most jiu jitsu matches are pretty boring, even matches were one guy taps his opponent in 5 minutes probably has several minutes of grip fighting) but people aren't just bored by this, they refuse to acknowledge it's validity.

 

[Sexy Pants]

This is do dumb I almost don't know how to respond

1)If the method both competitors use is so bad then why do we see so many people use it successfully in high level competition?

2)If you know what's going on then you know that when guys are "flopping curling up and showing butthole guard" they are looking to take the back or come up deep in a pass You know "fighting for a dominant position".

3)Do you really think people didn't stall 15 years ago? You can stall just as easily(if not more easily) in closed guard as you can in double guard pull.

I know what's going on- those were weak back takes. Look you have your opinion and I have mine. I'm glad we can agree to disagree.

That match itself to me sucked balls. I've been doing bjj for a long time. I've watched and competed enough to form a solid opinion over close to decade of grappling.

Perfect BJJ in my eyes is takedown pass mount or back submit. That's the true essence of BJJ in my eyes.

 

[Sexy Pants]

Sure, I totally agree that someone who doesn't understand jiu jitsu won't know(and might not care) what's going on in those positions. But that's not what we're talking about here. The people on f12 who complain about this stuff all train and in theory understand what's going on(or could probably figure it out if they were so inclined). At least on this forum the problem isn't knowledge it's peoples attitudes. And I don't even care if they find it boring(most jiu jitsu matches are pretty boring, even matches were one guy taps his opponent in 5 minutes probably has several minutes of grip fighting) but people aren't just bored by this, they refuse to acknowledge it's validity.

Also I think it seems you are the minority with your opinion.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Not exactly a criticism of this tournament specifically, but too many of these sub-only no-gi matches seem to degenerate into two guys diving for leglocks, and when they don't it's two guys shooting for quick flashy subs. I'm not a fan of IBJJF shameless point-fighting either, so somebody needs to man up and put together a real sub-only, no time-limit tournament ala the BJJ kumite. You may say it would bore people, but I for one would certainly watch it if done right.

 

[eddie t]

That match was pathetic no killer instinct shown at all,I hate the way is glover always only half trying in these event matches.

 

[portland]

Heres the 170 pound final with Gary Tonon and Richie Martinez

 

[Drew Foster]

That match was pathetic no killer instinct shown at all,I hate the way is glover always only half trying in these event matches.

I'm a big Glover fan, so admittedly this is biased, but he took the event on less than 1 week's notice, and even Eddie was like "are you sure that he can make 145 in time?"

The dude might well have been tired from the weight cut. There was a lot of money on the line, so I don't think that they weren't going for it. At ADCC and Worlds people have 2 days between their 4-5 matches. All of the finalists at this tournament had 3 matches by the finals, all within a couple hours, and they finished all of them to get there. So Geo, Glover, Tonon, and Richie had all submitted 3 people already by the time these finals even happened. Tonon and Glover both had some flying heel hooks, flying guillotines, and flying triangles between them. I dunno, I thought most of the matches were cool.

Bill Cooper took the event on 1 or 2 day's notice too.

 

[tap21]

Not exactly a criticism of this tournament specifically, but too many of these sub-only no-gi matches seem to degenerate into two guys diving for leglocks, and when they don't it's two guys shooting for quick flashy subs. I'm not a fan of IBJJF shameless point-fighting either, so somebody needs to man up and put together a real sub-only, no time-limit tournament ala the BJJ kumite. You may say it would bore people, but I for one would certainly watch it if done right.

I'll take guys "diving" for leglocks any day over IBJJF. Leglocks are awesome!

 

[ijustwannasurf]

J-Glo was being his normal playful self. You know what you're gonna get when he shows up.

I really like this format, and sub only in general. I hope more comps like this spring up.

 

[invertcheguard]

cooper and glover arent exactly top of the food chain in no gi anymore either though. rafa mendes destroyed him in there roll i couldnt believe how one sided it was. pretty sure coopers more focused on mma and glover teaching. glover is so talented too if hed stop messing around he could be at the top. ill be more impressed when the 10th planet guys are beating some top grapplers at no gi. perhaps not on the same day as the worlds would be a good start. also the overtime rules seem retarded. i much rather prefer the 5-6 min pro trials fights where everyone goes 200%.

 

[tap21]

cooper and glover arent exactly top of the food chain in no gi anymore either though. rafa mendes destroyed him in there roll i couldnt believe how one sided it was. pretty sure coopers more focused on mma and glover teaching. glover is so talented too if hed stop messing around he could be at the top. ill be more impressed when the 10th planet guys are beating some top grapplers at no gi. perhaps not on the same day as the worlds would be a good start. also the overtime rules seem retarded. i much rather prefer the 5-6 min pro trials fights where everyone goes 200%.

Like Cobrinha for example, he was never impressive at ADCC until he beat Rafa.

 

[Drew Foster]

cooper and glover arent exactly top of the food chain in no gi anymore either though. rafa mendes destroyed him in there roll i couldnt believe how one sided it was. pretty sure coopers more focused on mma and glover teaching. glover is so talented too if hed stop messing around he could be at the top. ill be more impressed when the 10th planet guys are beating some top grapplers at no gi. perhaps not on the same day as the worlds would be a good start. also the overtime rules seem retarded. i much rather prefer the 5-6 min pro trials fights where everyone goes 200%.

I like the 5-6 min pro cup times as well.


I did want to speak on the top of the food chain thing. The last nogi tournament that Glover did was ADCC '11 and he got Bronze. I at least like that you're saying he has the potential to be at the top, because for 2011 he said that was the first time he ever really followed a nutrition and S&C plan, and that was his best showing.

As far as Rafa and Cooper rolling, you already alluded to it, but think about how hard Rafa trains right now. He's actively training all the time, so I would expect him to look very good against someone that was recovering from surgery, didn't know they were being filmed, and wasn't training like a beast day in and day out. Keenan said that Rafa didn't get tapped out once during their ADCC training camp. Rafa rolls through everyone that comes and trains at AOJ, but I don't think it means that those people are automatically taken out of the top of the food chain. That's all I mean.

As far as 10th Planet, I think it would've been cool if it wasn't the same day as the Worlds also. I've become more open minded to some of the stuff that they show, but I don't think it's the direction that gi and nogi jiu-jitsu are headed as a whole. I've been working a lot of the truck stuff recently, and I'm having fun with it.