Negated side control

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Bruce Calavera, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. Bruce Calavera

    Bruce Calavera Purple Belt

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    When I'm passing from the knees trying to keep tight I often get into a weird position. Once I've cleared the legs on certain passes I'll end up in a weird reverse kesa gatame position very close to the hips. It's technically a passed guard but I can't attack or transition from this position and with the stiff arming and constant shrimping from the guy on bottom it seems almost like I should just give the guy his guard back and try passing again.

    Anyone have any experience with this?
     
  2. kimble09

    kimble09 Green Belt

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    just about everytime you and i roll!! hahaa!

    seriously though, when passing, i'm imagining one of my hands controlling either hips or knee, and the other hand grasping the shoulder or lapel. it's hard to imagine my positioning without actually being there, but i seem to remember having trouble passing your stiff arming my hips, thus not allowing me to complete the pass.

    on weaker opponents, you can kind of stall/melt slowly until they just can't bear your weight with their arm.

    on less skilled opponents, sometimes the arm won't even be there to stop you, or you can do a quick wiggle/shimmy to lose the arm.

    i'm thinking my trouble arises just before the arm hits my side...there's something i need to be doing to have more control or leverage maybe....
     
  3. kimble09

    kimble09 Green Belt

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    just a quick thought...

    what about this, just as you pass the legs, you smash them and switch directions?
     
  4. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    It is really common... nothing wrong with that position. Settle your hips in, drop a hip into the stiff arm. Just twist your hips and drop them to break the stiff arm. Then work into a position you like better. I actually like the reverse kesa position.

    If you are feeling cocky, you can just keep spinning all the way around into mount. It is Jean Jacques black belt techniques book. Just rotate all the way around, kicking the outside leg over the head an mount. It is flashy, but it does work.

    That said, just be patient... what is the rush. Settle in, establish side control, then go somewhere else you feel more comfortable.
     
  5. El Beebo

    El Beebo Blue Belt

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    Good post. The hip twist was a pretty major revelation for me when it came to controlling from side control. Now I don't really mind a strong dude stiff-arming me from the bottom.
     
  6. davejitsu

    davejitsu Purple Belt

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    Reverse Kesa is one of my favorite positions: 1) easy mounts 2) spin to armbar setup when they push on your back 3) kneebars; just a few of the options
     
  7. Bruce Calavera

    Bruce Calavera Purple Belt

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    The thing is that the stiff arms are posted low on my hips as they're facing the legs so I can't switch my hips because they're directly blocking that. And the spin to mount from being that low on his hips seems damn near impossible and I'm pretty flexible.

    Keep in mind this reverse kesa isn't positioned up toward my opponenet's chest. It's very low to the point that he's probably locked his elbows to stiff arm and I'm almost resting on his theighs.
     
  8. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    have you tried switching to a regular kesa gatame to get rid of the stiff arm?

    also some dudes just go to knee on belly whenever you try to stiff arm them. and if they keep extending their arms from there you got armbars all night long.
     
  9. davejitsu

    davejitsu Purple Belt

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    You want them pushing on your back, because that is not the proper way to escape. It also tells you where his arms are w/o seeing them. You need to pop up on his belly facing towards his legs, then spin towards the outside around for the arm attacks.
     
  10. Bruce Calavera

    Bruce Calavera Purple Belt

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    I'm kind of confused at the KOB points. Am I going to a reverse KOB and then switching to face him?
     
  11. xMikeyX

    xMikeyX Purple Belt

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    There's a great transition to N/S and to the bread cutter choke from there. Also arm triangles and mounts.
     
  12. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    When I get stuck there and can't shrimp up into their armpit, I throw my outside/lower arm over both their legs and reach back under to the inside of my thigh. This keeps them flat and lets me turn in toward a better position.
     
  13. Aesopian

    Aesopian Brown Belt

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    Be patient and persistent. Shake your hips and sneak every inch you can get. Maybe try being bold and spinning over to north south if you can (be careful about getting rolled or knocked off balance.) If it keeps being a problem, trace the issue back a stage to the type of guard passes you're using that put you in this position and see if they can be improved so you finish in a better position.
     
  14. DiscipleOfPog

    DiscipleOfPog Green Belt

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    There's one guy I have this problem with every single time we roll, but no one else. It's really annoying. Try to keep your chest/shoulders locked down on his hips while you try to escape your butt back towards his head. From here it'll be easier to go to mount, or you can go to N/S. Kimuras are pretty common from reverse Kesa gatame, too.
     
  15. FuneralPyre

    FuneralPyre Purple Belt

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    Yes, this happens to me and it's very annoying. I was told that the first thing is to get your body off the ground. Put your weight on your opponent. Then grab your opponent's near leg and push it to the ground on top of his other leg. It is hard for him to move when you do that and you should be able to establish a better position. One good move is to slide the leg that's closest to his head across his bottom thigh, step over his top leg with your leg that's closest to his feet, then pass into side control or mount. I don't know if anyone can understand that explanation, but it's like a pass that people do against knee shield half guard and butterfly guard.
     

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