Necessity of shooting singles /doubles

As long as you gave them a fair chance, and you learned them correctly, then its fine. Nobody uses every move. Find what works for your body type.
 
It depends on a lot of factors. I was helping a big guy (295) with his wrestling the other day and I told him flat out not to shoot for singles and doubles. At his size, he is just going to be too slow to get them. Bigger wrestlers rarely shoot. I don't don't do singles and double just don't shoot from the outside.

Even though, I am not that big (200) I rarely shoot. I get my singles and doubles from in the clinch. Some options include a high dive, which is a greco move that resembles a football tackle. There is also what I call a big guy double which is like a high dive only with the hands just under his butt.

High Dive


Randy's "Fight and win" video has some great options. Here is a clip


You can find it here:
Mixed Martial Arts Instructional Videos - DVD and Video Downloads

Btw, I just noticed that Randy's wrestling for fighting book has been made into a video that you can buy from Xtreme Couture. The book is excellent, the video should be good too.
 
well... I'm tall so I don't usually use them from standing, but I do use them from knees, like when I am escaping side control or something.
 
It depends on a lot of factors. I was helping a big guy (295) with his wrestling the other day and I told him flat out not to shoot for singles and doubles. At his size, he is just going to be too slow to get them. Bigger wrestlers rarely shoot. I don't don't do singles and double just don't shoot from the outside.

Even though, I am not that big (200) I rarely shoot. I get my singles and doubles from in the clinch. Some options include a high dive, which is a greco move that resembles a football tackle. There is also what I call a big guy double which is like a high dive only with the hands just under his butt.

is a high dive the name for the takedown brock lesnar does in all of his fights?
 
is a high dive the name for the takedown brock lesnar does in all of his fights?

It is pretty much a legit double. Brock is a freak of nature though. Most big guys aren't fast enough to shoot like that from the outside. There have been a few though especially when they transition to MMA against lower calibre wrestlers.

Here is another example of a high dive.


the reason it work good for big guys is due to the fact that you wrap around the butt or waist. It is easier to level change and keep your back straight then trying to get behind the knees. I like it for MMA because I can get it in close quarters a little better than the double.

korleone1911 said:
well... I'm tall so I don't usually use them from standing, but I do use them from knees, like when I am escaping side control or something.

This right here is a great reason to practice doubles even if you don't plan to use as go to takedowns. I can't count the number of scrambles I have turned into double legs and frankly I was never any good at them, I did all my work of the clinch because I was strong for my weight class and normally a bit slower. Even after being out of pure wrestling for over a decade, all those reps made it instinct to catch the far knee, look to the sky and drive with the outside leg and my head.
 
I think it's very possible to do without strong singles/doubles as long as you have a very good defense and sense your balance as well as the opponents. This is basically how I am, but I'm just uncomfortable with taking shots really. I'd rather just let other people go for the risky moves and defend and then counter-attack if I ever feel them off balance.

I know this is pretty general but I wanted to try to add some input anyways :D
 
If you can't shoot, how are yoiu going to takedown someone who has the same gameplan as you? Tons of heavyweights I see at local and naga lvl shows have almost no takedown game. Their plan is to be hard to takedown, and let the other guy make the move.
 
If you can't shoot, how are yoiu going to takedown someone who has the same gameplan as you? Tons of heavyweights I see at local and naga lvl shows have almost no takedown game. Their plan is to be hard to takedown, and let the other guy make the move.

There are more to takedowns then shooting singles and doubles. If you specifically meant the poster above you, you can bait guys into to shooting on you and counter. I wrestled like that a lot in when I wrestled. Present openings that aren't really there and counter. Granted that probably works a lot better in pure wrestling then something like sub grappling.
 
Indeed tony, but, what if both guys have the same gameplan? Now they counteract each other fully as both refuse to shoot.
 
In nogi, even if you are a judoka, you will often have to level drop very good at least to tie up and clinch a shooter. For offence even.
 
There are more to takedowns then shooting singles and doubles. If you specifically meant the poster above you, you can bait guys into to shooting on you and counter. I wrestled like that a lot in when I wrestled. Present openings that aren't really there and counter. Granted that probably works a lot better in pure wrestling then something like sub grappling.

Yeah, baiting the shot and sprawling can be an effective albeit risky gameplan. You are gambling that you have better timing than your opponent does, and that he isn't a good enough wrestler to re-counter your counter. But against typical BJJ guys this works a lot of the time.
 
This is getting really interesting, I am noticing that many guys have a strategy similar to mine.

The strategy to posture right and bait them to shoot and then sprawl them into the mat is great, and it works, and I love it.

However I have to say that in my limited experience, this stops working against decent wrestlers. Competitive ones (most wrestlers) would shoot and take me down, or shoot / fake shoot and counter my counter as someone mentionned, or would just grind their way out of the sprawl and gain control.

And someone said that if both guys have the same plan nothing will happen. But you do go for sweeps, arm drags, hip throws, etc....while being on the lookout for the singles and doubles. You just don't initiate the shoot.
 
its not a necessity, but it's nice to know and have in muscle memory in case an opening appears. i figured that with all the clinching, going for drags, trips, throws, that sounds like is yur main neutral game, that there would be openings for singles/doubles.

but it's all bout yur style. i know my friend who's wrestled for 11 years says its better to be great at a few takedowns/ set ups, than try to practice every takedown.

if yur fast n can stuff takedowns well, there are a lot of moves that u can go for.
such as singles, there's the whizzer, switch, spladle, backdrop, etc.
as long as you can stuff and counter, there's not a necessity for being good at doubles or singles imo.

until u hit college tho.
 
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lol at "It's a Long Way to the Ground (If You Wanna' Shoot a Leg)".
 
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However I have to say that in my limited experience, this stops working against decent wrestlers. Competitive ones (most wrestlers) would shoot and take me down, or shoot / fake shoot and counter my counter as someone mentionned, or would just grind their way out of the sprawl and gain control.

And someone said that if both guys have the same plan nothing will happen. But you do go for sweeps, arm drags, hip throws, etc....while being on the lookout for the singles and doubles. You just don't initiate the shoot.

It isn't easier than shooting a lot. It is actually more difficult in some ways. It is essentially counter punching for wrestling. For some people it is the better strategy. However, if guys are better than you then they are better than you.

I would just keep practicing all aspects of your game. I find myself initiating takedowna a lot more then I used.
 
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