Myth: MM isn't P4P because his competition is weak

JohnyBrabo said:
First off P4P is the dumbest thing in combat sports. Second off you can't be number 1 P4P if you weigh 4 pounds. And finally Cruz beat Johnson with relative ease. In no way is MM a better fighter than Dominick. Let's see him leave the lilliputian division and challenge himself. Him breaking Anderson's record will ring hollow.
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Why is that?
 
JohnyBrabo said:
Lol but against who? There are 35 fighters on the roster at flyweight. It's about as deep as a kiddie pool. And he should have lost the first McCall fight arguably. So it's not like he's had no close fights at 125. Let him sack up put on his big boy pants and see if he can beat a Dillashaw.
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To the roof Batman.

MM vs Cruz 2 already
 
JohnyBrabo said:
Only a dumbass thinks a manlet is the UFC's best fighter. Cruz tossed him around like a chewtoy.
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Mighty Mouse is currently the most dominant fighter in the UFC in his own weight class fighting guys his size. Cruz barely beat dillashaw and had his hands full vs old ass faber.
 
JayElectra said:
Why is that?
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Because it is entirely subjective. Everyone has a different definition and it's impossible to define. There are weight clashes for a reason.

It's cool for debate and the barber shop but honestly it's worth nothing. Cruz being behind Johnson illuminates that seeing he has actually defeated him.
 
kumitechamp said:
Mighty Mouse is currently the most dominant fighter in the UFC in his own weight class fighting guys his size. Cruz barely beat dillashaw and had his hands full vs old ass faber.
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Lol you are either retarded or trolling and didn't watch the fight. That was an ass kicking.
 
JohnyBrabo said:
Only a dumbass thinks a manlet is the UFC's best fighter. Cruz tossed him around like a chewtoy.
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Cruz struggled with "said" manlet who trained what, twice a week at ama while being a construction worker. LOL, the striking exchanges between him and MM were close...and that says a lot about Cruz and a green MM. Confirmed GOAT
 
120wrestling said:
Cruz struggled with "said" manlet who trained what, twice a week at ama while being a construction worker. LOL, the striking exchanges between him and MM were close...and that says a lot about Cruz and a green MM. Confirmed GOAT
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There was no struggling when he went to the grappling. He got treated like bubba's bitch. Striking is only part of MMA. That midget got son'd.
 
JohnyBrabo said:
Lol you are either retarded or trolling and didn't watch the fight. That was an ass kicking.
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I was one of the few people who gave Faber the first round but in the second after Cruz dropped him the fight was over.

Then the fight was Faber doing jack $%-$ trying to get out cage to cash his check.
 
Beating Benavidez twice alone disqualifies the flw division and MM's competition as being weak.

Joe B is like the DC of flw. His results speak for themselves. Thus, MM is the P4P King.

*Since we're talking P4P, how can folks forget MM's success at BW, too?
 
Bend NvR Break said:
I was one of the few people who gave Faber the first round but in the second after Cruz dropped him the fight was over.

Then the fight was Faber doing jack $%-$ trying to get out cage to cash his check.
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Exactly. There wasn't one point in the second round on where Faber even sniffed a chance at winning. He got owned the last few rounds.
 
JohnyBrabo said:
There was no struggling when he went to the grappling. He got treated like bubba's bitch. Striking is only part of MMA. That midget got son'd.[/QUOTE
This means anything in a pound for pound debate why?
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Arete9 said:
Beating Benavidez twice alone disqualifies the flw division and MM's competition as being weak.

Joe B is like the DC of flw. His results speak for themselves. Thus, MM is the P4P King.
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Then why did he lose to Cruz
 
It means how can he be ranked above Cruz when Cruz has a win over him in actual competition? Not that hard to figure out. Pound for pound will always be a debate for the nerds. Especially when it comes to honey I shrunk the cage fighter.
 
JohnyBrabo said:
It means how can he be ranked above Cruz when Cruz has a win over him in actual competition? Not that hard to figure out. Pound for pound will always be a debate for the nerds. Especially when it comes to honey I shrunk the cage fighter.
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Because they are not the same size. DUH! Pound for Pound debate is to say if they where the same size. I think if they where the same size mightly mouse would win if they fought with their current skillsets.
 
kumitechamp said:
Because they are not the same size. DUH! Pound for Pound debate is to say if they where the same size. I think if they where the same size mightly mouse would win if they fought with their current skillsets.
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But they will never be the same size lol. Duh. Which is why it's fucking dumb and irrelevant. Could a 245 pound Aldo beat Stipe? Guess what he will never be 245.
 
120wrestling said:
Cruz struggled with "said" manlet who trained what, twice a week at ama while being a construction worker. LOL, the striking exchanges between him and MM were close...and that says a lot about Cruz and a green MM. Confirmed GOAT
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So losing the fight made him GOAT? Not sure you know what those letters stand for..
 
JohnyBrabo said:
Because it is entirely subjective. Everyone has a different definition and it's impossible to define. There are weight clashes for a reason.

It's cool for debate and the barber shop but honestly it's worth nothing. Cruz being behind Johnson illuminates that seeing he has actually defeated him.
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Well, it's based on a subjective analysis of several objective criteria, so no, it's not entirely subjective. At its core it's simply an attempt to ascertain the best fighter relative to weight in a sport with weight classes. A very basic and somewhat obvious concept to pursue and discuss in a sport with weight classes (and this is why in every other sport with weight classes it's either explicitly or implicitly discussed). I mean, there is no reason why you need to assign any worth to it or care about it if you don't want to (just as there is no reason to follow the sport if you don't want to), but I'm always confused as to why people act either shocked or incredibly disdainful to the concept in MMA when knowledgeable people, for the most part, don't bat an eyelash at it in any other combat sport (I'm not actually confused, I have a very good idea why for most cases).

I don't hear many wrestling fans complain about the idea of Buvaisar Saitiev being declared as the best freestyle wrestler of all time (they're implicitly saying the best wrestler relative to weight or, the best pound for pound wrestler of all time - also, I'm not saying that some wouldn't disagree with the idea that B. Saitiev is the best, but no serious freestyle wrestling fan I've ever met would ever scoff at the idea based on weight). Nor do I hear collegiate wrestling fans complain about the idea of Cael Sanderson being called the best NCAA wrestler of all time even though they're clearly implicitly saying the best pound for pound NCAA wrestler of all time. I don't hear many muay Thai fans dismiss the idea of Samart Payakaroon being the best nak muay of all time. Finally, very few boxing historians or fans (there are some exceptions, but they're well in the majority) have a problem with the idea of Ray Robinson (or possibly Greb or Armstrong) being the best fighter of all time, and, again, they're always implicitly or explicitly saying they're the best fighters pound for pound.
 
JayElectra said:
Well, it's based on a subjective analysis of several objective criteria, so no, it's not entirely subjective. At its core it's simply an attempt to ascertain the best fighter relative to weight in a sport with weight classes. A very basic and somewhat obvious concept to pursue and discuss in a sport with weight classes (and this is why in every other sport with weight classes it's either explicitly or implicitly discussed). I mean, there is no reason why you need to assign any worth to it or care about it if you don't want to (just as there is no reason to follow the sport if you don't want to), but I'm always confused as to why people act either shocked or incredibly disdainful to the concept in MMA when knowledgeable people, for the most part, don't bat an eyelash at it in any other combat sport (I'm not actually confused, I have a very good idea why for most cases).

I don't hear many wrestling fans complain about the idea of Buvaisar Saitiev being declared as the best freestyle wrestler of all time (they're implicitly saying the best wrestler relative to weight or, the best pound for pound wrestler of all time - also, I'm not saying that some wouldn't disagree with the idea, but no serious freestyle wrestling fan I've ever met would ever scoff at the idea). Nor do I hear collegiate wrestling fans complain about the idea of Cael Sanderson being called the best NCAA wrestler of all time even though they're clearly implicitly saying the best pound for pound NCAA wrestler of all time. I don't hear many muay Thai fans dismiss the idea of Samart Payakaroon being the best nak muay of all time. Finally, very few boxing historians or fans (there are some exceptions, but they're well in the majority) have a problem with the idea of Ray Robinson (or possibly Greb or Armstrong) being the best fighter of all time, and, again, they're always implicitly or explicitly saying they're the best fighters pound for pound.
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Head to head means nothing? How about actual competition. Cruz has actually fought and defeated Johnson. If people don't see the logic in that there's no hope for them.
 
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