Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by bigjoey, Dec 8, 2005.
I have a basic program to get some kick ass strength. I don
Do you really need the leg press? I'd substitute in leg curls and calf/toe raises to prevent injury.
Also, a rep range of 2-10 is very wide. Are you doing lower reps on your main lifts and higher reps on your assistance lifts? Also, what do you mean by "explosive using max weights"? That sounds like an injury waiting to happen to me. You probably shouldn't be lifting dynamically with more than 85% of your 1RM. Just lift controlled in the rep range of 2-3, your muscles with be applying explosive force even though you move the weight slowly and with control.
Finally, only do this 4 days a week max. So alternate single and double rest days. Follow the ME days with the double rest cycle.
Why would doing leg press cause injury?
Is that seriously a picture of you in your avatar? I've seen autohomoerotic photography in my time on strength forums, but that shot might just take the cake.
NICE TIGHTY WHITIES DUDE!
Yes, that avatar is a bit disturbing to say the least.
Madmick, why would you take out leg presses and put in leg curls and toe raises in place of it. I am not insulting you or trying to criticise you but rather wondering the logic behind it. Thanks man. I'm starting to really appreciate the knowledge in your posts brother.
Scrap the leg press adn you only need one type of deadlift.
Whats kettle work?
To gruesome and rickdog:
The leg press won't cause injury. The reason I don't like it is because it is redundant; he already has the squat. Unless he is doing weak point training, there's really no reason to have the leg press in your routine, and even then, I'd prefer the front squat or even the Smith squat for assisting quadricep strength.
The reason for including leg curls and toe raises is to prevent injury. Certain agonist/antagonists have strength imbalances, and research has shown it is in those muscles where injury is most likely. The quadriceps:hamstring strength ratio is 2:3, I believe (that's off the top of my head). Truthfully, of all the sample workouts for athletes (not pure lifters) I have seen in all the literature I've been through, I don't think I've ever seen a routine without the leg curl.
As for toe raises, that's to strengthen the ankles (not combat the imbalance between calf and anterior tibialis that already favors the calf), and is one of Bompa's 5 laws of resistance training; BFN posted on this in the thread where I first discussed this, and included a link to a study that indicated something like 1/4 of all team sport injuries are ankle injuries.
Sidenote to anyone doing calf raises to increase vert: I've heard the chain argument, I don't buy it. This is a pre-habilitative lift (if that's a word), you're not going to notice any dynamic strength changes. The calf has the lowest percentage of FT muscle fibers. In other words: moon shoes are a SCAM.
Kettlebells. It's an old russian type of dumbbell that actually evolved alongside the dumbbell in early strength training. The DB went west, the KB didn't. They both have their distinct strengths. Pavel Tsatsouline brought the KB over.
I meant to inquire about that. You'll have to ask the guys who have read Pavel's book or are more familiar with KB's than me, but what kind of workouts are you doing? If you're taxing the same energy system, that could be a problem, since you're lining up consecutive workout days.
Actually, I think the Sumo and the SLDL's compliment each other quite nicely. If you do scrap one, though, I'd scrap the SLDL's and replace them with GHR's. In that case, I might also revert the Sumo to a standard deadlift, although it will depend on your squat/deadlift stances which pair of SQ/DL lifts exercise the greatest variety in your muscles.
I've never been able to complete a workout where I planned a high volume of sets for both squat and deadlift with loads over 90%. Whichever I do last, I always get nauseous and feel overheated in the early sets, and have to quit.
I see where you are coming from, this workout is not for everybody. The rep decrease as the weights go up. Like on incline bench I will start with 225 for 10, then 315 for 2 sets of 5, and then finish with 405 for 2 reps. I do all this stuff explosive, but thats mainly for the concentric portion of the movment, for the eccentric portion I move it down moderately slow, I don't crash that shit onto my chest. In regards to the leg press, I think it gives me a burn in the whole leg, both quads and hams and I plantar flex my legs for the whole movement so I am working my calves isometrically. I can't do that on the squat because of the balance problem. You could definetely subsitute the other two exercises that you stated by individual perference. The main goal of my workout is to keep it heavy and explosive using the core motions to provide functional muscle and power for powerlifting and MMA.
Sorry dogg, my old lady made that for me from a picture she took of me. I told her that I was gonna catch shit if I used it on the forums I speak on, but she told me if I put it on and kept it up I would get to grapple with her naked with oil. She came out wearing nothing but a white belt from her martial arts class around her big boobs and my MMA gloves on her hands, pointed at me and said "are you ready?... well lets get it on" and I said I am keeping the avatar up 4 ever. So as long as it doesn't turn you on then we are all good, just call me a tool and I will deal with it, cause it just reminds me of what I got for making it my avatar on here. :icon_twis
I usually try and copy the exercise some of the exercises I did during the workout. The Kettlebells are mainly for balence and for my hand strength for grappling. I am already toast by the time I hit the kettle's, so its also for mental toughness. This workout is hard, but you won't overtrain like you think, its a bitch for the first two months, but it gets easier and damn it has peaked my strength.
The squats and the leg press are very different in terms of the way I do them, and so are the deadlifts. If you are short on time I can say that you could do it that way, but I don't recommend it.
I understand that, when I first started this workout it was with a friend that said he needed to get strong quick and he paid me well and counted it as a personal favor. I would do it with him, and we would sometimes yack during the leg days. He quit after two months so its not for everybody, but he gained 70 pounds on his bench press in 2 months steriod free, so it was crazy. I gained 90 pounds on my bench from when I started which was 6 months ago. My weighted dips went from doing 60 pound dumbbell full range to 120 pound dumbbell full range. My gym stopped at 120's so before I go up any higher I gotta call the management.
Thanks for the explination.
You really don't need to do leg press/curls. Do Leg raise, while sitting on your knees, have someone hold your ankles and you control yourself going down, then come back up or do SLD or hams,
Thorw out Bent rows and Do more KB swings/cleans
Seems like KB work is supplementary or not that important, when in fact is one of the most important implements you can use for strength and endurance. Respect the bell and give it more attention )
Duncon, that's just a partner assisted GHR. If he does adopt a GHR in his program, he'd be fine to take the leg curls out.
He definitely shouldn't throw out bent over rows (at least not for swings or cleans). I don't know that much about KB's, I've started to learn from the powerlifter at my gym, but depending on his phase, he'll need more/less dynamic work.
Don't get me wrong, I use them plenty and I love the bells, but I am not going to do them before my standard powerlifting moves. You can't add weight to the kettlebells, so I need to gain progression by the free weights. I still go balls to the walls with the bells, but not till the end of my normal workouts. Sorry.
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