My grappling game has become too reliant on the gi...

[BJJ Beginner]

It's all about the underhook, son.

Or the overhook. Best to be solid attacking with either grip so your opponent is in danger no matter what he does.

It's fun frustrating people who think they're safe with the underhook by unleashing a barrage of attacks from my overhook.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I don't have this problem.

When I'm rolling no gi, I know to use no gi controls. Likewise, when I use the gi, I know to use various lapel and collar controls.

I don't see how you would have this problem. Are you instinctively going for collar/lapel grips in no gi? I would think after you make that mistake once, you don't make it again.

In my experience, training no gi actually tightens up my gi game considerably. In no gi you have no easy grips to keep someone broken down like in gi, and it's very sweaty and slippery so moves that almost never slip in gi, slip in no gi 75% of the time. In no gi if you and your partner have worked up a good sweat, you can usually just slip out of omoplatas, triangles, and armbars.

This has tightened up my game because I'm much more efficient in my use of gi grips, and I find that locking up submissions is a lot easier with the ease in which you can keep someone's posture broken in gi, and the amount of friction which makes commons subs a lot more difficult to escape, and easier to hold on to for the tap.

No gi training has also helped my scrambling. You enter a scramble a lot more in no gi and this has had the effect of making my gi scrambling a lot more explosive and I can often preempt a scramble in gi in which I'm once step ahead of my opponent. My back taking and guard passing has gotten a lot better due to this.

I'm not sure about gi training tightening up your no gi game, but many world class jiu jitsu guys swear by it, so I'll take their word on it. I do know that no gi has helped improve my overall gi game though. Once you train no gi, you really start to appreciate the grips and friction of the gi.

Well said. I can definitely relate to this.

To the threadstarter, it sounds like you're new to no gi, so keep working on it. You'll adapt soon enough and then you'll probably find that a lot of your gi game will translate better than you think.

 

[ozyabbas]

I don't have this problem.

When I'm rolling no gi, I know to use no gi controls. Likewise, when I use the gi, I know to use various lapel and collar controls.

I don't see how you would have this problem. Are you instinctively going for collar/lapel grips in no gi? I would think after you make that mistake once, you don't make it again.

In my experience, training no gi actually tightens up my gi game considerably. In no gi you have no easy grips to keep someone broken down like in gi, and it's very sweaty and slippery so moves that almost never slip in gi, slip in no gi 75% of the time. In no gi if you and your partner have worked up a good sweat, you can usually just slip out of omoplatas, triangles, and armbars.

This has tightened up my game because I'm much more efficient in my use of gi grips, and I find that locking up submissions is a lot easier with the ease in which you can keep someone's posture broken in gi, and the amount of friction which makes commons subs a lot more difficult to escape, and easier to hold on to for the tap.

No gi training has also helped my scrambling. You enter a scramble a lot more in no gi and this has had the effect of making my gi scrambling a lot more explosive and I can often preempt a scramble in gi in which I'm once step ahead of my opponent. My back taking and guard passing has gotten a lot better due to this.

I'm not sure about gi training tightening up your no gi game, but many world class jiu jitsu guys swear by it, so I'll take their word on it. I do know that no gi has helped improve my overall gi game though. Once you train no gi, you really start to appreciate the grips and friction of the gi.

I have started doing a lot of no-gi recently and it does make you better at scrambles, getting position and keeping submissions tight.

The reason you get good at those things is that its harder to get the submission because of lack of grip and easier to escape to better positions. So it won't improve your submission defense and escape abilities as much as it would with the gi.

 

[Teedoh74]

You are still a newb, son. A little over a year is not a good gauge to evaluate your game.

 

[Eric Renzo NH]

What everyone else said, try to use under/over hooks sometimes just to get used to it. Cup the elbow on armbars from guard don't grab the sleeve....etc...

I'm actually the opposite, i train gi all the time and my game doesn't show it. I do ok in gi, but i don't use any gi chokes or grips...And when i get tapped out it's almost always by a gi choke....it sucks

 

[Dedicado]

... but what about cross collar grip? This is my goto grip, that I use for everything, and when my opponent doesn't have a gi, I don't know what to do. Any other grips that translate to no-gi would be helpful too. Also, should I take my gi chokes out of my game? They obviously only work when fighting someone with a gi on, so should I even bother using them?

Ya you should bother! If you live in North America or anywhere that has a winter you will at some point see people with jackets. These "coats" if you will have "collars". So I can "choke" any juiced biker with a leather jacket on or or use sleeve grips on that guy in the bar who always wears a rugby shirt for some stupid reason. I can even control a guys hips by grabbing the waist band of his jeans or even his belt.

If he isn't wearing a belt then his pants may fall down during the fight limiting his abilites to run away from the ass whooping I will then unleash. Hopefully I fight a girl with a rugby shirt, leather jacket and no belt. That way when I choke her unconcious and her pants slide down well....

Okay, proly gonna get a red card for this unless I tell you that I am just kidding here.

No Gi grips to control the head are behind the neck, a solid guillotine from guard or mount, the 'arce from guard, and the front headlock postion ( arm in headlock that looks like a darce or anaconda set up )

I train 50% Gi 50% No Gi and I have no probs adjusting my game. The reason this dude is getting loose on you is proly because your reliance on grip strength has limited you in terms of learning how ot hold a guy down with your hips. This you can do gi or No Gi equally well.

Instead of Gi chokes, sliding collar, ninja etc., now look for the darce, the guillotine and the anaconda. (please mods no red card, I am just rying to be funny!)

 

[black koala]

lucky for you that most fights dont take place at the pool or beach but where most people are wearing clothes that you can grab.

 

[boboskitchen]

Anybody know any good no-gi chokes from mount (other than arm-triangles).

head and arm
legtriangle
paper cutter

those are my go to from mount

 

[Cash Bill 52]

over under Gable grip

grab the trapesius (sp?) muscle for grip

wrist control

mounted triangles

standing guard pass

 

[Dedicado]

lucky for you that most fights dont take place at the pool or beach but where most people are wearing clothes that you can grab.

who me? I fight no gi advance division baby!

 

[Q mystic]

So, I've been doing BJJ for a little over a year now, and I started out doing no-gi almost exclusively. I told myself from the beginning, that I want to keep my "game" for both gi and no-gi the same, and that I want my style to be able to transfer to real "self-defense" and MMA situations. In other words, I didn't want to become reliant on the gi, and when on my back, I wanted my guard game to be focused on breaking the posture/tying up my opponent (so he can't posture up for strikes), while also being offensive (have good sweeps and submissions). Even though, I never plan on training/competing in MMA, I don't just want to be a "sport jiu jitsu" guy (I want my jiu jitsu to work when there are strikes and no-gi too).

Anyways, fast forward to a year later, and I have been training with the gi only lately. The main reason for this is my grip strength (I have a really strong grip, which allows me to really control people with a gi on), and because my gym has WAY more gi classes every week than no-gi. My JJ has improved ten-fold in that year, but I find myself always going for grips on the gi. So yesterday in my gi class, this guy (who I ussually beat pretty bad) forgot his gi, and I rolled with him without his gi. I just couldn't control the guy or setup anything on him, and I think it's due to me relying on that gi for grips. It was mainly setting up submissions from my guard that I had trouble with (no collar, no sleeves), but I also had trouble passing his guard (no pants to grab onto at the legs or knee). Also, I've become very good at the cross choke (gi choke). I had to incorporate this choke into my game to use against bigger guys, because arm/joint locks, don't really work as well against guys who are a lot bigger and stronger than me. So when I don't have that option, it sucks.

So anyway, my question is, what are some grips that translate from gi to no-gi? Some are obvious, like instead of grabbing the sleeves, I grab the wrist, but what about cross collar grip? This is my goto grip, that I use for everything, and when my opponent doesn't have a gi, I don't know what to do. Any other grips that translate to no-gi would be helpful too. Also, should I take my gi chokes out of my game? They obviously only work when fighting someone with a gi on, so should I even bother using them?

'What grips translate'? I went from about 3 or 4 years judo at the time to wrestling and I dont think the grips were the problem but more work on positioning and more controlling your own body....I mean comparatively, there were no grips in nogi and you could 'work' almost always from any position in gi...and you can't really be taught all of that. Just gotta train more nogi. It'll come together.

Train your gi chokes in gi and look for other stuff in nogi....not neccessarily the same thing. I accidently found many nice turns/sweeps in wrestling from my armbar game in judo.