My grappling game has become too reliant on the gi...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Crazy_88_Monkey, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. Crazy_88_Monkey

    Crazy_88_Monkey White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    So, I've been doing BJJ for a little over a year now, and I started out doing no-gi almost exclusively. I told myself from the beginning, that I want to keep my "game" for both gi and no-gi the same, and that I want my style to be able to transfer to real "self-defense" and MMA situations. In other words, I didn't want to become reliant on the gi, and when on my back, I wanted my guard game to be focused on breaking the posture/tying up my opponent (so he can't posture up for strikes), while also being offensive (have good sweeps and submissions). Even though, I never plan on training/competing in MMA, I don't just want to be a "sport jiu jitsu" guy (I want my jiu jitsu to work when there are strikes and no-gi too).

    Anyways, fast forward to a year later, and I have been training with the gi only lately. The main reason for this is my grip strength (I have a really strong grip, which allows me to really control people with a gi on), and because my gym has WAY more gi classes every week than no-gi. My JJ has improved ten-fold in that year, but I find myself always going for grips on the gi. So yesterday in my gi class, this guy (who I ussually beat pretty bad) forgot his gi, and I rolled with him without his gi. I just couldn't control the guy or setup anything on him, and I think it's due to me relying on that gi for grips. It was mainly setting up submissions from my guard that I had trouble with (no collar, no sleeves), but I also had trouble passing his guard (no pants to grab onto at the legs or knee). Also, I've become very good at the cross choke (gi choke). I had to incorporate this choke into my game to use against bigger guys, because arm/joint locks, don't really work as well against guys who are a lot bigger and stronger than me. So when I don't have that option, it sucks.

    So anyway, my question is, what are some grips that translate from gi to no-gi? Some are obvious, like instead of grabbing the sleeves, I grab the wrist, but what about cross collar grip? This is my goto grip, that I use for everything, and when my opponent doesn't have a gi, I don't know what to do. Any other grips that translate to no-gi would be helpful too. Also, should I take my gi chokes out of my game? They obviously only work when fighting someone with a gi on, so should I even bother using them?
     
  2. Vector_X

    Vector_X Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,290
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    It sounds like you have been doing gi a little while longer than me, but I also came from nogi and find myself following a similar trend. Umm a grip that works well of course is tricep control and back of the head. You really need to rely on getting a deep hook in nogi since you don't really have much that you can clamp down on. I find butterfly guard works really well in nogi, while in gi I don't favor it as highly. Thats my .02 cents but like I said you might have a bit more experience but those are the things that I tend to focus on.
     
  3. ItsArun

    ItsArun Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hey, don't sweat it. What you experienced is natural, I'm sure most people in the game went through it at around your time, some even later. I know I have. But you're doing the right thing: you're assessing your game, seeing how it could improve, and doing something about it. You're not just staying in your comfort zone. There are so many guys I know who train exclusively with the gi only because that's their strongest point, and they want to maintain their ego...and I don't mean lower level guys, I mean purple and browns.
    Here's an excellent video that shows good setups in a no-gi guard:

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_0G5AXAYnI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/v_0G5AXAYnI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  4. johil d'o

    johil d'o Thought Warrior

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,413
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    In the Mind
    When rolling with really fat guys in "no gi", you can just grab a fold of skin with your 'uber-powerful' grip (as you claim) and use it like a gi to hold onto, choke with, etc. The skin, unlike the gi, almost never tears.
     
  5. ItsArun

    ItsArun Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,201
    Likes Received:
    49
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    ^ He never claimed he had an "uber-powerful" grip, he just said that he has a solid grip when it comes to the gi. I don't how see how his comment was any grounds for this type of sarcastic response..
     
  6. irc

    irc Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    3,874
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ya game is weak, son...
     
  7. Crazy_88_Monkey

    Crazy_88_Monkey White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, man. I'll check that video out when I get home (youtube is blocked at work).
     
  8. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    4
    Use under/over hooks + head/wrist control when you got a gi on.

    Ditch gi chokes and use nogi chokes instead.
     
  9. Crazy_88_Monkey

    Crazy_88_Monkey White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0


    Thanks, guys. Very helpful stuff, not to mention hi-freaking-larious.:icon_neut
     
  10. Crazy_88_Monkey

    Crazy_88_Monkey White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anybody know any good no-gi chokes from mount (other than arm-triangles).
     
  11. MonkeyNuts!

    MonkeyNuts! Rear Naked Poker

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    64
    mounted triangle from s mount
     
  12. damit2hell

    damit2hell Guest

    a no gi ezekiel choke
     
  13. johil d'o

    johil d'o Thought Warrior

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,413
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    In the Mind
    Relax, son (he said "I have a really strong grip, which allows me to really control people with a gi on"). In any case, it's all in good fun and I wasn't bashing the OP. Just having a little fun.
     
  14. ahcshon

    ahcshon Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    1
    What my style is for the most part is not do any gi chokes. I just don't like them. My entire submission game does not depend on the gi at all. Also I play alot of over/under hooks. And when I do no gi I find that I do better than I do in a gi anyways.

    The downside of my not focusing on gi chokes is that I am susceptible to getting choked by the gi as I just don't think that way.
     
  15. SteveQ

    SteveQ I'd rather be fishing

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    0
    who needs chokes from the mount ? - pull guard and armbar! repeat as necessary - BMA_Mat
     
  16. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    4
  17. Crazy_88_Monkey

    Crazy_88_Monkey White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
  18. FLMikeATT

    FLMikeATT Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    I don't have this problem.

    When I'm rolling no gi, I know to use no gi controls. Likewise, when I use the gi, I know to use various lapel and collar controls.

    I don't see how you would have this problem. Are you instinctively going for collar/lapel grips in no gi? I would think after you make that mistake once, you don't make it again.

    In my experience, training no gi actually tightens up my gi game considerably. In no gi you have no easy grips to keep someone broken down like in gi, and it's very sweaty and slippery so moves that almost never slip in gi, slip in no gi 75% of the time. In no gi if you and your partner have worked up a good sweat, you can usually just slip out of omoplatas, triangles, and armbars.

    This has tightened up my game because I'm much more efficient in my use of gi grips, and I find that locking up submissions is a lot easier with the ease in which you can keep someone's posture broken in gi, and the amount of friction which makes commons subs a lot more difficult to escape, and easier to hold on to for the tap.

    No gi training has also helped my scrambling. You enter a scramble a lot more in no gi and this has had the effect of making my gi scrambling a lot more explosive and I can often preempt a scramble in gi in which I'm once step ahead of my opponent. My back taking and guard passing has gotten a lot better due to this.

    I'm not sure about gi training tightening up your no gi game, but many world class jiu jitsu guys swear by it, so I'll take their word on it. I do know that no gi has helped improve my overall gi game though. Once you train no gi, you really start to appreciate the grips and friction of the gi.
     
  19. mikey5time

    mikey5time Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    ASK. YOUR. INSTRUCTOR.

    Whoops, caplock.

    The grips don't really transfer well. Holding the collar = holding the neck/head. See?
     
  20. masada555

    masada555 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2004
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    3
    It's all about the underhook, son.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.