My 5/3/1 Variation: Thoughts

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Neuro, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    Hey Guys,

    Thought I'd ask for some feedback on my 5/3/1 variation, which is itself based off Wendler's two-day MMA split/Beginner's three day split.

    Monday: Squat 5/3/1, Bench 5/3/1
    BBB assistance work (3 sets), front squats, pulls and pushups

    Wednesday: Deadlift 5/3/1, Press 5/3/1
    BBB assistance work (3 sets), pulls, curls, leg work as needed

    Friday: Repeat Monday's workout, (maybe without BBB? Maybe go go lighter on one of the lifts?)

    Thoughts? Too much work? I'm still a novice lifter, at a way-bulked (I compete at 170) bodyweight of 190 my maxes are:
    3x250 Squat
    1x215 Bench
    1x380 Deadlift
    3x140 Press

    My reason for varying the workout up as I did is that a) I'm not training BJJ/Wrestling more than 2x/week, at most, these days, so I have more recovery time and b) I still feel I can recover fast enough with good sleep and a gigantic diet to milk out some more noob gains, and finally c) my bench simply will not go up, I've been stuck at like 225 max for 3 months now, and I was thinking this might help me breakthrough.

    My only thoughts for adjustment are to drop BBB on Friday (too much volume), or to just do Bench, or Squat, on Friday.

    Thanks everyone for any feedback, apologize for the length.
     
  2. KnightTemplar

    KnightTemplar Halloween Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    37,959
    Likes Received:
    46,243
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    If you want to use Wendler's MMA template, then the third day should be assistance work only, not one of the Big 4 Lifts.

    If you want to use a 3 day split, I'd go with 5/3/1 Original with BBB, SS or Triumvirate for Assistance. If Bench is your priority, then SS is probably your best Assistance Template since in addition to flat Bench you also do Incline and Close Grip.
     
  3. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    Even with my novice numbers? You don't think I could still benefit from squatting and bench 2x/week?

    I take your advice judiciously though, Templar, cause I know your experience. Appreciate the feedback.
     
  4. KnightTemplar

    KnightTemplar Halloween Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    37,959
    Likes Received:
    46,243
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    If you want to add volume to your Squatting and Benching, why not try the Full Body Template? Three workouts per week, every workout has a Squat, Press and Pull variation.

    Thank you for the compliment but there are many people in this Forum who are both much stronger and much more experienced than I. I'm happy to try and help, but please do not take what I say as gospel.
     
  5. xPINKx

    xPINKx i like turtles

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    128
    Location:
    I'm in your fridge, eating your yolks
    What about front squats and some kind of press on Fridays? You still get to move some weight, but you also have more time to recover as it won't be as intense.
     
  6. EddieLovesYou

    EddieLovesYou Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Do it. If it's too much you can always cut back, but if you can handle the volume and recover enough to where it doesn't affect your training then you'll likely benefit (I know I respond much better to higher volume work).

    Since you're doing some BBB assistance (even just 3 sets) maybe pull the front squats out of your Monday workout and do 60% for the BBB sets. Front squats can even sub in for back squats on Friday (this is kinda what I'm doing right now).
     
  7. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    Been running it, feels good, though we'll see how I progress-- gonna do some light conditioning work today. Thanks for the feedback everyone
     
  8. DrBdan

    DrBdan Something clever

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    12,129
    Likes Received:
    983
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Have you considered doing something other than 5/3/1? Madcow 5x5 can be a good option as I've heard it goes well with a couple days of skill training.

    You could also try the 5/3/1 variation that has you bench and squat twice/week or the option that has you squat 3 times/week.
     
  9. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    Yeah man. I tried Madcow for two weeks and I was way too impatient. The workouts didn't really feel like workouts in the first few days, so I gave it up and stuck on 5/3/1. Also, the S&C coach at my gym is a big fan of 5/3/1, so he helps me out a lot with it-- it just makes sense with my (usual) training schedule.

    Do you have a link to the Squatting 3x/week 5/3/1? And the bench and squat 2x/week template you're referring to is this one, I presume? http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/

    I have definitely thought about giving the latter a try, yeah. I just like squatting heavy more than once a week, I guess-- I feel I make good gains with the intensity and volume, but we'll have to see (and I'm still such a novice).

    Thanks for the feedback, Doc.

    Related: Just checked out your log-- congrats on hitting 1,000 bro. You have any ideas on what kind of training you're gonna put in to get your bench where you want it? My bench frustrates me the most out of all my lifts, I'd say.
     
  10. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    bump
     
  11. ReverendMister

    ReverendMister White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Drop the friday work. No need for assistance work on that day. No need to front squat, or work on your press, or anything similar. Consistency will be very important to getting stronger. Gains arent always going to be fast, and 3 months is not a long time at all to not see huge process on a lift.

    You may find that you recover better if you move Wednesday to thursday, as you're not doing much technique work, and it will help space your days out more.

    Best thing about 531 is that you dont have to think too much about it. One thing we laugh about sometimes is how much guys overanalyze the training. Not specifically 531, but training in general. A huge point that most either neglect to consider, or simply fail to realize, is that, unless youre a powerlifter, the weights are an adjunct to your training. Not the reason for it. Its supposed to be easy. Best advice I would offer, and Jim would say the same, is to do it as written.
     
  12. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    Truth-- I can't argue with that. Thanks man

    Edit: And what if I was just focusing purely on powerlifting, purely on getting stronger? Not an adjunct of training but the goal itself-- would your advice remain the same?

    Again, thanks
     
  13. ReverendMister

    ReverendMister White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    At your current level, barring some sort of issue, it would be.
     
  14. Neuro

    Neuro Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Skellige
    Thanks man
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.