Muslim takes prison to supreme court because they won't give him special privileges

[Quipling]

So, for those of you who don't know, the Supreme Court just heard a case this past Tuesday. The case was a Muslim man in an Arkansas high (maximum?) security prison who requested permission to grow a beard. Beard permission was denied, so he asked for permission to grow a half-inch beard, since other prisons had allowed those, and he felt it prevented their main objections. Arkansas refused again. He filed suit, and lost, and appealed all the way up to the supreme court. At that point, his case was picked up by religious liberty advocates who picked up his suit against Arkansas.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/10/218456/

Info that I know people are going to care about:

He was litigating to enforce a statute that required prisons to make religious accommodations unless they had good reasons not to do so.

Arkansas had previously litigated in another, mostly unrelated case, over allowing a 1/4 inch beard for medical reasons.

Guy was in prison for doing some bad shit (stabbed his ex-girlfriend). However, there's been a lot of misinformation about the particular shit he did beyond that.

He was a Caucasian convert to Islam. (As opposed to a muslim man from the Caucasus mountains).

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Aren't prisoners stripped of their rights across the board?

 

[jlazer]

Rules of the prison shouldn't be bent for anyone's beliefs. Rules come first and your beliefs come 2nd

 

[Quipling]

Aren't prisoners stripped of their rights across the board?

No. They lose some rights, but that doesn't mean they lose all of them.

Rules of the prison shouldn't be bent for anyone's beliefs. Rules come first and your beliefs come 2nd

1.) New prison rule: Everybody is wiccan now. All individuals who profess to be christian are required to convert. Religion reduces recidivism rates, and wicca has a low imprisonment rate to start with.

2.) Why are prison rules > constitution?

3.) Read the entire OP before saying stupid things. I even bolded the important part for people like you. There is a rule applicable to the prison.

 

[jlazer]

No. They lose some rights, but that doesn't mean they lose all of them.


1.) New prison rule: Everybody is wiccan now. All individuals who profess to be christian are required to convert. Religion reduces recidivism rates, and wicca has a low imprisonment rate to start with.

2.) Why are prison rules > constitution?

3.) Read the entire OP before saying stupid things. I even bolded the important part for people like you. There is a rule applicable to the prison.

Rules say no beards, then there shouldn't be any beards. Pretty simple.

 

[Quipling]

Rules say no beards, then there shouldn't be any beards. Pretty simple.

And another rule says they need to make accommodations for prisoners with religious beliefs. This is mentioned, in bold font, in the OP. Pretty simple.

 

[uppercutbus]

2.) Why are prison rules > constitution?

Because this will only apply to those with "religious beliefs" giving them benefits no one else has or even other religions if its not tradition or in their fairy book.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

It's just a beard, it's not like he wants a bomb.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

No. They lose some rights, but that doesn't mean they lose all of them.

Hard to say what's really wrong with a beard, but if you can lose your right to vote because you're in prison I don't see how religious accommodations are a sacred cow.

 

[nostradumbass]

2.) Why are prison rules > constitution?

Because prison is the place they send you if you couldn't handle having your constitutional rights on the outside.

And another rule says they need to make accommodations for prisoners with religious beliefs. This is mentioned, in bold font, in the OP. Pretty simple.

It depends on the accommodations they're asking for. They can't just get whatever they want and say it's because of their belief. If they need a bible or Qur'an in their cell, ok, but they say their beliefs are that they should be outdoors to pray 7 hours/day, it's go fuck yourself.

I don't know what the no beard policy is there for but it is there. If Allah will forgive whatever he's in prison for, I'm sure he won't mind the lack of a goddamn beard.

 

[Quipling]

Because prison is the place they send you if you couldn't handle having your constitutional rights on the outside.

That's not really how it works. There are a wealth of cases and laws protecting constitutional rights of prisoners. They lose some rights, but not all of them.

It depends on the accommodations they're asking for. They can't just get whatever they want and say it's because of their belief. If they need a bible or Qur'an in their cell, ok, but they say their beliefs are that they should be outdoors to pray 7 hours/day, it's go fuck yourself.

I agree. It depends on what you ask for. The question is whether what they asked for is going to cause a problem for a prison - that's why a qur'an is ok, and praying outside 7 hours a day would not be (although this prison already allows prisoners outside for a long period of time). It's difficult to see how a half-inch beard is going to cause serious problems for the prison.

 

[MicroBrew]

Here's my take:

Half-inch beard is no big deal; let the guy have it. Some people prefer beards to alleviate the problem of ingrown hairs; read about this being an issue for African Americans in the armed services and how they are allowed to grow a short beard if they want to.

Now I do not think the guy should be granted an exception for religious reason; for health reason or just because it is only half inch , is fine by me. The problem with granting religious exceptions is then you got to grant every religion the same right , though you could still disallow certain religious customs and allow some.

 

[Josh]

Prisons have chaplains, right?

Either respect all religions, or respect none. If they won't let the guy have a beard, don't let him have a prayer mat either, and fire all the chaplains, throw out all the bibles, crosses, and pews, stop letting the wiccans do whatever it is they do.

 

[Jimmy Tuna**]

Wiccans make the best shivs

 

[7437]

Rules of the prison shouldn't be bent for anyone's beliefs. Rules come first and your beliefs come 2nd

what about the rules for the people making the rules for the prison?

Im guessing you dont care about those rules though.

 

[Gandhi]

Aren't prisoners stripped of their rights across the board?

Across the beard????

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Across the beard????

Like a waxing!! Ouchie. :icon_lol:

 

[nostradumbass]

That's not really how it works. There are a wealth of cases and laws protecting constitutional rights of prisoners. They lose some rights, but not all of them.

Right, so you can't just say constitutional rights as if prisoners are entitled to all of them. Even outside prison, there are restrictions on how closely you can follow a religion, particularly when it comes to punishments like stoning people. I don't know what the problem would be with dude growing a beard but if they give him a short beard, they might as well let him grow a full one.

 

[Rjay]

Beards are prohibited as people can hide contraband in them such as SIM cards and shivs.

 

[Quipling]

Beards are prohibited as people can hide contraband in them such as SIM cards and shivs.

Anything they can hide in a 1/2 inch beard they can more easily hide in the full head of hair they are allowed. Sim cards are 1/2 by 1/2 inch, so good luck hiding those, and i imagine that concealing a shiv next to your throat isn't going to work out well either.

Alito also had some choice words for the idea that a 1/2 inch beard is going to conceal anything.



Two people mentioned he should be allowed a full beard:

Yeah, probably. Most states allow them anyways, because beards are a terrible place to hide contraband. Shit falls downwards even if your beard is long enough. The main issue is that the prisoner wasn't litigating for a full beard - he asked for 1/2 an inch because he was offering a compromise to the prison, and one he thought would have to be acceptable under the statute.