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Muay Thai for the Most Part is an Attribute Contest

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Biggiebrother**, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. Biggiebrother**

    Biggiebrother** Brown Belt

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    I train in Boxing and Muay Thai, probably a bit more Boxing than MT

    Both sports are vastly different and as many of you know the skills and techniques are different.

    I enjoy sparring in both styles but the more i realise that MT is so much more an attribute contest. Two combatants stand in front of each other and it's who can punch, kick, knee and elbow the hardest, fastest and for the longest.

    Look i know there is much more to it than that, but the ringcraft and evasive skills (head movement etc) that work in boxing don't work as well in MT. I've been observing a lot of MT fights recently, from local fight nights to the top guys (e.g. Contender Asia fights and Lumpinee stadium fights i've downloaded) and for the most part it is two guys standing in front of each other banging away.
     
  2. Vector_X

    Vector_X Brown Belt

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    sorta right I guess, but ya cardio does play a really massive role in Thai fights. The footwork and knowing when to press and when to move does play a rather large part.
     
  3. THEKOKID

    THEKOKID Orange Belt

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    timing plays a huge part in muay thai also
     
  4. Chonbody

    Chonbody Guest

    Well you do have more tools to work with, pounding each other away is kind of the point.
     
  5. journeyman

    journeyman Blue Belt

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    theres also clinching and throws , which sorta 'replaces' head movements.
     
  6. TsukinoKage

    TsukinoKage Purple Belt

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    Before anyone chimes in with accusations of "he's saying boxing is more technical than MT", it is definitely true that you see more toe-to-toe trading blows in MT. Of course defensive skills and movement play a factor, but that's just a fact of the sport.
     
  7. Chinaboxer

    Chinaboxer Blue Belt

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    I agree that the very traditional Muay Thai can be a "lets stand toe to toe and see who is the tuffest" contest. It is seen as a "rights to passage" for young boys to becoming men in Thailand. But things have changed over the many years. Muay Thai is evolving...slowly..but albeit it is changing.

    The fighters rely more and more on versatility, evasiveness and footwork as the years go by. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that Muay Thai fighters using the old "tuff" mentality don't last very long in the sport, because of the severe injuries accrued from exchanging repeated blows. These Muay Thai fighters eventually have to learn more defense tactics because they just can't stand toe to toe with the upcoming talent who are much younger and stronger.

    The point being that the new "breed" of Muay Thai fighters who have adapted the "brains over brawn" mentality, eventually teach their methods to a new generation and so on.
     
  8. T.J.T

    T.J.T Green Belt

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    Isnt is scored diffrently because of this also? you always hear people taking about agression in MT, and i always belive it was because this sport use to entertain kings so basicly it was supose to be who can be more dominate in a ring.

    If you watch the JWP / Jhabba fight was basicly what you were talking about. About the 3rd round you knew he was going to win because of the ring movement, JWP was the agressor, and moved forward the whole time, when you could almost say it was a very close match skill wise. I could be wrong here but isnt "western boxing" scored more on how many punches are landed, how many power punches and less about ring control? you always see at various parts of a fight the "punch stats" like if your more busy 75% of the time you should be winning the fight. where in MT you can be busy moving backwards and its looked bad apon.

    I could be wrong here, but i agree with what you said. I dont think anything is wrong with boxing or MT, and i dont care if they are scored diffrent, but even with training, when i started i was a good counter puncher. I went into the ring with someone smaller then me, held my own (he probably has a couple years of training to my 3 months at the time). i Basicly backed away from him the majoraty of the time but landed probably as much and everyone said i should have been walking him down even though maybe my skills wernt as sharp.

    anyways thats a long post to basicly sum it up i agree.
     
  9. ambertch

    ambertch Purple Belt

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    nooooo... yes amatuer boxing is "hit and don't get hit", but nevertheless ring generalship (ring control) is HUGE

    A brawler has to cut angles and say you got a ring, a drill any coach will have a brawler type do is visualizing four quadrants and use ring cutting, body hooks and footwork to contain his opponent in one of those quadrants and inch them into the corner

    A boxer has to use footwork and feints and redirection of force to escape. Spin off the ropes, escape out of a corner - there's a lot of kung-fu wing chun shit in boxing when you think about it. Guy rushes you, you pivot and redirect his momentum to escape (while throwing a hook in the process) I don't know anything about Wing Chun actually lol but from a boxing perspective they are both fighting arts focused on "the straightest line" and "minimum effort, maximum effect"
     
  10. T.J.T

    T.J.T Green Belt

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    I know i have been taught in mt you can be great at blocking, but getting out of the way is always a better alternative, but i still agree with the TS, so many times you see 2 thai fighters just standing and exchanging hard heavy blows. im not saying there is a total lack of foot work or moving away from one another, but it just doesnt seem to the extent of a boxer. I wonder if Ali's rope a dope would have won him a Mt fight had it gone to a score card :p

    Its late i might be saying this all wrong, but i have to side with the TS. Mt just feels diffrent then boxing when it comes to ring control. Not that im trying to make either sport sound better.
     
  11. vangor

    vangor Banned Banned

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    muy thai is easier to learn because it's simpler.
     
  12. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    You mean its a battle of attrition?
     
  13. Ian Coe

    Ian Coe Silver Belt Professional Fighter

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    What he said


    A Muay Thai fight has been described to me as two car ramming into each other again and again with the poorer conditioned one giving in/falling apart sooner then the other.

    While the foot work for MT is very different to boxing (the power of low kicks), its still there, albeit a lot more subtle. There are a lot of other skills that can be brought to the fore if someone has better footwork then you, whereas in boxing the person with the better foot work will usually be the dominate one
     
  14. Gavin Smith

    Gavin Smith Amateur Fighter

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    I agree with TS to an extent, MT is very much a blow for blow exchange with less focus on footwork and ellusiveness than boxing or kick boxing.
    Only I think rythem and timing are key, thats why they have that music, it's a dance of violence and the person with the better timing and rythem often dominates the fight.
     
  15. T.J.T

    T.J.T Green Belt

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    i like that :D
     
  16. Biggiebrother**

    Biggiebrother** Brown Belt

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    The kicks especially the low kicks do make a lot of different. If you try angling off and pivoting away like Tarver did so well againsts Clinton Woods and Cassamayor did so well against Katsidis (and Floyd against Hatton), your opponent can get you with a kick as you change direction so much easier because it's a longer weapon.

    I do love making punches miss with head movement in boxing, i think it's a great aspect to the sport. We all know bobbing and weaving in MT leaves you vunerable to knees.
     
  17. aries

    aries Silver Belt

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    One of the main differences in MT is the scoring of techniques. Punches are seen as the lowest scoring technique because they are the most protected part of the body. The Thais see it as hitting each other with pillows. They love body kicks and knees.

    In boxing the range is much smaller. In MT the spread of ranges is much bigger, as you have kicks through to elbows and clinching. That totally changes the effectiveness of traditional boxing footwork and evasive techniques.
     
  18. The_Bear

    The_Bear Purple Belt

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    Unintelligent fighters just let themsvles get beat and not use slipping, head movement, jamming, breaking time (beat, half beat, etc.), parrying, or moving on 45 degree angles. Compare an Anderson Silva to a Razor Roba nd tell me who is the better MT fighter.
     
  19. GrazZ

    GrazZ Guest

    the first thing i was told about MT was that primarily its focus is on power, its much more about power because of how many weapons you can use as opposed to strictly boxing in which you are only throwing hands which allows for much more head movement and footwork to be employed. Whereas a boxers movement is much more erratic, that is bobbing and weaving to avoid shots, the same cant be said for Muay Thai when kicks, knees etc. are involved, the MT stance is more like stalking than "graceful" i would say because of things like the clinch and kicks which a traditional boxer doesnt have to worry about

    that seems largely true to me as well as most of the other posts in this thread
     
  20. vu

    vu Purple Belt

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    Doesn't bobbing, weaving, really good in/out movement, stick/move, working angles, throwing "flowing" combos, and all that jazz require just as much in terms of attributes as Muay Thai's ability to take punishment, hit hard, clinch hard, etc...?
     

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