Moving down in weight versus moving up

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by SpedDaddyV, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. SpedDaddyV

    SpedDaddyV GOAT

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    It seems like fighters who fight in weight divisions relatively closer to their true weight, or fighters who move up in weight typically have more success.

    Is it fact or a myth that moving down in weight makes you more "chinny?" Is it something to do with equilibrium/brain? Or does it have to do with having a speed disadvantage while having lost muscle in the transition?

    I am real curious to see how a guy like Luke Rockhold looks when he fights at 205. He cuts a tremendous amount of weight and definitely is chinny at 185. I have stood next to him and he is HUGE. He has all the technical ability in the world, but when it comes to speed and chin at 185, he is getting destroyed.

    Size advantage is definitely important, but there seems to be a real law of diminishing returns when too much weight is cut.

    You would think that a bigger fighter who is successful in a bigger weight class moving down on weight would easily (on paper) have advantages over a similar fighter in a lower division. That just isn't the case
     
  2. MusterX

    MusterX Titanium Belt

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    The surprising part of these "champ-champs" and attempted "champ-champs" is that the smaller fighter keeps winning. GSP wins at 185, DC moves up and wins at HW, McGregor moves up and wins at 155, Nunes moves up and wins at 145, and even with TJ/Cejudo, the smaller man won. That is the surprise in all this. We have always been told, favor the "larger fighter when in doubt" but that has not really been the case.
     
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  3. Thenewguysnm1

    Thenewguysnm1 Brown Belt

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    Speed kills
    I thought tj was gonna be faster but I underestimated just how fast these flyweights are
    Tj has always been chinny so you can’t blame it on the cut
    He’s been knocked out by a flyweight before
     
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  4. Huligani

    Huligani Number One Bullshit

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    It's weird. He was conscious against Dodson and Cejudo, those were just shots to the ear and his equilibrium was 100% gone, which is actually normal and not a sign of "chinniness." He took Garbrandt's power well.
     
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  5. wilKO

    wilKO Green, White & Gold belt

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    Weight classes are there to protect these rubbish HWs from FLWs.
     
  6. Mike K.O

    Mike K.O Mystic Mike

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    Benavidez would wreck Stipe
     
  7. SalvadorAllende

    SalvadorAllende Paper belt

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    Lighter guys are usually faster and more skilled.
     
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  8. HalifaxHooligan

    HalifaxHooligan Orange Belt

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    Looks like cutting the extra weight is likely an issue . With only a day to recover the "smaller" fighter recovers to their natural weight quicker.
    GSP and Conor are big for their initial weight classes, so moving up was good for them. Neither has dropped back down since moving up either.
    DC was lucky that Stipe isn't a huge HW, be interesting to see him in against a larger HW.
     
  9. Jackonfire

    Jackonfire Senior Modulator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Whittaker suffered back to back losses to Court McGee and Stephen Thompson at WW. He then moved up and is on a 9 fight win streak with the MW belt around his waist.

    I'd say moving up is the direction to go.
     
  10. astrozician

    astrozician Orion's Belt

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    Unless you're Randy Couture, then you can do whatever the hell you want.
     
  11. jmsmma170

    jmsmma170 Blue Belt

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    IF JOE B MAKES IT OUT OF THE FIRST THEN I AGREE WITH YOU
     
  12. Draxton

    Draxton Skinny white guy belt

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    You mean like TRT Bigfoot or Lewis?
     
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  13. thobra

    thobra Black Belt

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    I think it mostly depends on the fighter And the state of the weightclass. Mw has been an ageing division, so younger WWs have had good Success there the last couple of years. I would think Cejudo was just a better fighter than TJ that night. Maybe always.

    If Luke moves up, He probably tries to be as big as possible, And cut as much weight as possible at LHW too.
     
  14. jeff7b9

    jeff7b9 Red Belt

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    People are underestimating or simply fail to understand the effect of a punch behind the ear on human equilibrium.

    By which I mean that I don't think this fight is clear cut evidence of chin issues.

    The reaction to a punch behind the ear is different from a punch on the jaw. Balance is affected more by the shot behind the ear.
     
  15. SpedDaddyV

    SpedDaddyV GOAT

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    so if I am proving my alpha in a bar, should I aim for behind the ear instead of the jaw?

    I originally was planning on using a one-two straight to the face while they aren't expecting it (I would start off saying "no bro, I don't want to fight, I am sorry"), then sucker them them with the straight being kind of a Machinda straight

    but now you have me re-thinking my hypothetical street fights
     
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  16. felmmando

    felmmando Brown Belt

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    I agree. Against Bigfoot Silva, for example.
     
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  17. SpedDaddyV

    SpedDaddyV GOAT

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    yup. or 6'3 Josh Barnett or 6'3 Frank Mir or 6'3 Derrick Lewis.

    6'4 Stipe was a small HW. Cormier is lucky that he has been fighting smaller guys
     
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  18. sudo uber alles

    sudo uber alles White Belt

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    McGregor is/was bigger than Alvarez, and had already been turned into a panic wrestler by a larger Nate Diaz.
    The rest of your examples work though.

    Couture was active in a period when people didn't typically cut such a huge percentage of their mass. A blessed period, before assholes like Dolce and the rest of that ilk...
     
  19. HalifaxHooligan

    HalifaxHooligan Orange Belt

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    I meant in weight, not height, Stipe is closer in weight to DC.
    Anyone weighing in at the 165Lb limit will have a weight advantage on DC.
     
  20. jeff7b9

    jeff7b9 Red Belt

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    Go for nose/mouth/chin in your hypothetical street fights.

    The behind the ear shot can be incredibly effective even as a glancing blow but you need to have a certain angle open, tends to open up when opponent over commits and winds up out of position.
     

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