Mother of Ahed Tamimi: Unexpected support for daughter partially the result of form of racism

[KnightTemplar]

She made a sweeping generalization about a different culture-- the West-- and principally one race among it based on an anecdotal assumption without any citation of evidence to substantiate her logic.

What would you say about someone like that who was white and Republican? How did you feel about David Clarke?

"Ashamed" is your word. He's accusing her of shaming people, and that's why he used the word "shamed". It's a transitive verb. It's not an adjective describing a state of mind. The verb is intended to provoke that state of mind in people.

Perhaps this clarifies something I perceive as quite simple.

 

[nac386]

She made a sweeping generalization about a different culture-- the West-- and principally one race among it based on an anecdotal assumption without any citation of evidence to substantiate her logic.

I did not see the mother say anything about white people or the West. Do you have citation or evidence to substantiate that?

She gave her opinion, and supported it with her own observations and what people have said directly to her.

“In fact one journalist wrote in Haaretz once on why they sympathized with Ahed when they were trying to arrest me once; they arrested me and she was crying,” she explained. “It’s because they felt that she looked like them, she said. So perhaps the world showed more solidarity because she looks like their children, but all Palestinian children are Ahed Tamimi.”

^ The horror!! What a racist!

You guys are trying way too hard here. Calling her a racist for saying that is just absurd, and really something I'd only hear on this website, lol.

 

[Rod1]

White privilege is real? no shit sherlock.

Only pampered first world denialists thinks it doesnt exists.

From chinese hiring white people to speak at conference, to Indians buying whitening creams to latin american cultura eurocentrism, the modern world was built by white people and people who look white have an inherent advantage in it with very few exceptions.

 

[Bald1]

I don't see how it downplays it. The courage is the same regardless of how much or whether people recognize it.

Ok, how about casts a shadow on it? Calls it's legitimacy into question as it implies we wouldn't hold her in the same regard if she looked different. We think highly of her, but because our judgement is tainted by racism her value is inflated over that of identical accomplishments by people who look less western than her daughter. Personally I think Ma stepped in it, and it stinks.

Like @LogicalInsanity said, Tank Man is universally respected/admired and would be no matter the colour of his skin. While we tend to identify more with people who resemble us, courage in the face of overwhelming odds is a universally admired trait.

 

[Leagon]

Ok, how about casts a shadow on it? Calls it's legitimacy into question as it implies we wouldn't hold her in the same regard if she looked different. We think highly of her, but because our judgement is tainted by racism her value is inflated over that of identical accomplishments by people who look less western than her daughter. Personally I think Ma stepped in it, and it stinks.

Like @LogicalInsanity said, Tank Man is universally respected/admired and would be no matter the colour of his skin. While we tend to identify more with people who resemble us, courage in the face of overwhelming odds is a universally admired trait.

But even if we wouldn't hold her in the same regard if she were darker skinned, how does that change how courageous her daughter was? I'm sure there were some very courages slaves in 1790. Does the fact their their courage wasn't recognized call the legitimacy of their courage into question?

She's not talking about her daughter's courage, she's talking about everyone else's biases. If popular recognition respresented quality or value, CM Punk would be the best WW in the UFC.

 

[Ruprecht]

Does anybody look remotely white in Burma? They all look east asian or really dark indians to me. The rohingya look like the darkest indians I've seen.

You've never seen a Sri Lankan Tamil?

 

[Bald1]

But even if we wouldn't hold her in the same regard if she were darker skinned, how does that change how courageous her daughter was? I'm sure there were some very courages slaves in 1790. Does the fact their their courage wasn't recognized call the legitimacy of their courage into question?

She's not talking about her daughter's courage, she's talking about everyone else's biases. If popular recognition respresented quality or value, CM Punk would be the best WW in the UFC.

We're not talking about a popularity contest. We're talking about universally admired traits that Ma says would be ignored if her daughter looked different.

Would we think less of Spartans if they were women? Would we think less of David if he was black and Goliath was white (no idea what colour they were supposed to be)? No. To think otherwise is to cast aspersions at the deed and lend more weight to appearances.

Yes, if we could assign a value to her daughters courage that would remain a constant. The problem is Ma is saying we view that constant through the lense of identity politics therefore saying the value can change based on perception.

Maybe insomnia is messing with my ability to effectively get my point across, but I think those comments weren't helpful at the least.

 

[MicroBrew]

White privilege is real? no shit sherlock.

Only pampered first world denialists thinks it doesnt exists.

From chinese hiring white people to speak at conference, to Indians buying whitening creams to latin american cultura eurocentrism, the modern world was built by white people and people who look white have an inherent advantage in it with very few exceptions.

A lot of people hate it with this is stated. And these people are almost always on the right. They detest it when people point out White / light skinned privilege as a fact of life.

 

[MicroBrew]

Good way to lose support, calling your supporters racist.


Does anybody look remotely white in Burma? They all look east asian or really dark indians to me. The rohingya look like the darkest indians I've seen.

She didn't call them racist, she was just making the observation that Ahed received support in part because of her Euro phenotype. Making the observation doesn't mean she is attacking the supporters.

Several months or a year ago, there was a news picture of a Rohingya child / toddler, that had a Eurassian appearance. Ofcourse it is very rare, but not surprising since the Rohingya came originally from what is today Bangladesh, and there is some Eurassian admixture in Bangladesh.

In some pictures from Syria, there was a tendency for some journalists to pick out the most northern Euro looking children. This isn't a new phenomena.

 

[Leagon]

We're not talking about a popularity contest. We're talking about universally admired traits that Ma says would be ignored if her daughter looked different.

Would we think less of Spartans if they were women? Would we think less of David if he was black and Goliath was white (no idea what colour they were supposed to be)? No. To think otherwise is to cast aspersions at the deed and lend more weight to appearances.

Yes, if we could assign a value to her daughters courage that would remain a constant. The problem is Ma is saying we view that constant through the lense of identity politics therefore saying the value can change based on perception.

Maybe insomnia is messing with my ability to effectively get my point across, but I think those comments weren't helpful at the least.

Why is Jesus white in Western churches and brown across South America and dark skinned in Africa? Even from your own example, David is almost always depicted in Western art as fair-skinned, often with blonde or even red hair. Seriously, do a Google image search. There are several images of Goliah being dark skinned and he always has black hair. David has black hair about 50% of the time and is always fair.

I think you're underestimating how much appearance plays a role. It's not that we'd think less of their courage, it's that the story would reach a different audience.

The thing is, journalists are aware of this and deliberately seek out such opportunities that can depict people more relatable to western audiences.

We actually ARE talking about a popularity contest.

 

[MicroBrew]

WRers: "Why should Western countries be flooded with people who are fundamentally DIFFERENT from them? You don't see the problem with having millions of people who are totally DIFFERENT from you enter your country?"

Also WRers: "Look at this whiny bitch suggest that people have a preference for those who are similar to them."

Yup, and that is why some journalists and those sympathetic towards the plight of refugees / oppressed people focus in on individuals who look 'western' , hoping Western audiences will be more sympathetic if they notice the victims look more like them.

 

[TryggeTryggvar]

WRers: "Why should Western countries be flooded with people who are fundamentally DIFFERENT from them? You don't see the problem with having millions of people who are totally DIFFERENT from you enter your country?"

Also WRers: "Look at this whiny bitch suggest that people have a preference for those who are similar to them."

Maybe because most ppl dont discriminate by race but by behaviour and if you come from a country wich is completely different from your own they will probably behave different. As long as your behaviour is similar to the people around you they wont care how you look

 

[Trotsky]

IDK how I expected this thread to turn out any differently.

Saying that's racist. Racists do racist stuff. Whatever.

I know I'm burning out my tires with hypotheticals, and I apologize, but just suffer one more to humor me. If a study shows that black people generally empathize more with black children, and then a white person says "well that disparate empathy exemplifies a form of racism that we should try to deconstruct," you would think that black folks should recoil that that white person just called them a bunch of racists?

I also (of course) don't speak Tamimi's language and cannot speak to the weight or connotation of the word(s) she used.

I also can only fucking balk at the fact that in the United States being confronted as possibly holding racist views is way fucking worse and more offensive than virulently being a racist in actuality.

 

[Rational Poster]

Maybe I'm a little bit more idealistic (or naive).

I read about Ahed before seeing her photo. And yea, I pictured a poor looking "brown" , darker person.

Seeing her photo didnt change my opinion of her. Either way, I thought/think Ahed is courageous....more so than 98% of this forum.

Then again, I'm a sucker for the underdogs in life.

I highly doubt that during the entire history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that she was the first Palestinian girl to throw hands at the IDF in a frustrated defense of her family.

I agree that racism is a part of it, she looks Western, but it's not only racism, it's also because she's an attractive girl too.

An ugly little brown girl would get far less notice.

 

[nostradumbass]

Female privilege imo. Also, the mom obviously cheated on her husband on got knocked up.

 

[Ruprecht]

I think young women generally are just more likely to get a sympathetic response.
It was the same with all the stories about Kurdish women fighting Isis, the fate of the Yazidi women or that famous picture of the Afghan girl refugee on national geographic.

 

[Rational Poster]

White privilege is real? no shit sherlock.

Only pampered first world denialists thinks it doesnt exists.

From chinese hiring white people to speak at conference, to Indians buying whitening creams to latin american cultura eurocentrism, the modern world was built by white people and people who look white have an inherent advantage in it with very few exceptions.

You can get well paying jobs in China just for being a white guy.

They'll actually hire you to be their white friend for the evening.

 

[Rational Poster]

I think young women generally are just more likely to get a sympathetic response.
It was the same with all the stories about Kurdish women fighting Isis, the fate of the Yazidi women or that famous picture of the Afghan girl refugee on national geographic.

The Afgan girl blew up too because she was stunningly attractive.

 

[babycart]

White privilege is real? no shit sherlock.

Only pampered first world denialists thinks it doesnt exists.

From chinese hiring white people to speak at conference, to Indians buying whitening creams to latin american cultura eurocentrism, the modern world was built by white people and people who look white have an inherent advantage in it with very few exceptions.

Even koreans are disparaging their fellow dark-skinned koreans by calling them filipinos.

But even if we wouldn't hold her in the same regard if she were darker skinned, how does that change how courageous her daughter was? I'm sure there were some very courages slaves in 1790. Does the fact their their courage wasn't recognized call the legitimacy of their courage into question?

She's not talking about her daughter's courage, she's talking about everyone else's biases. If popular recognition respresented quality or value, CM Punk would be the best WW in the UFC.

And? Will that courage feed someone?

In her daughter's case, it can. By having popular support, she can go on fundraising, while (in her own words) other children are personally languishing under israeli oppression for being as courageous as her daughter.

Bottomline: if Ahed Tamimi didn't exist or she is dark-skinned, would people give a fuck about palestinian teens bitch-slapping israeli soldiers? In fact, you care because you know. And you know because someone put it into your attention (the media). Would the media give a fuck about the issue if there's no Ahed Tamimi? Depends on the benefits involved...
​

 

[SaiWa]

White privilege is real? no shit sherlock.

Only pampered first world denialists thinks it doesnt exists.

From chinese hiring white people to speak at conference, to Indians buying whitening creams to latin american cultura eurocentrism, the modern world was built by white people and people who look white have an inherent advantage in it with very few exceptions.

wow wow wow. Asians have always preferred pale white skin long before any white people swung by Asia.