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bicep slicer & calf cruncher
DMcKayBJJ said:The original question is what is the most painful submission that causes the least permanent damage...
Pain is a sign that damage to the human body is occurring, usually due to some type of sub in the case of grappling. So, IMO, it is really tough to maximize pain and minimize the chance of permanent damage. I think we'd all agree that a sub feels more and more painful as it is applied longer and longer, which ultimately increases your chance of permanent damage. And, in the wrong hands, ANY sub can cause damage (from short-lasting to long-lasting) if not released in an appropriate amount of time.
Therefore, for most painful sub, I'd vote heel hook.
For least permanent damage, a properly applied RNC.
For most painful but least permanent damage, even if done by a noob who doesn't release it in time, I'd vote wrist lock or straight foot lock.
TheHighlander said:Not quite true. Pain is just nerves firing. Most joints don't have nerves per se, but there are nerves usually nearby. Pain doesn't indicate joint damage but the potential for joint damage. You can maximize the pain by attacking areas with high concentrations of nerves and minimize damage by attacking more stable joints (or better yet, not attacking joints at all, or least only peripherally).
No. Actually, that's the main reason the heel hook has such a bad reputation -- there isn't much (if any) pain. By the time you get pain you are already experiencing significant damage.
Wrist locks inflict permanent damage relatively easily and you typically have to crank them pretty hard to prevent escape which enhances the danger. Straight foot locks aren't particularly painful either, at least not at levels of minimal damage, but you mileage may vary.
Morgano said:In your opinion what's the most painful submission that causes the least amount of permanent damage,?
DMcKayBJJ said:I guess our experiences differ then.
The one heeel hook I experienced (because I just won't roll anymore with anybody who's looking to slap one on) gave me HUGE pain, as it happened and even afterward. Thankfully, no "permanent" damage. But my knee was swollen for days and took weeks to recover fully. To me, that's pain. Granted, I've had pretty bad knee injuries all my life to begin with from other sports.
Likewise, I find wrist locks and ankle locks to be way more painful as they happen than other subs (i.e. kimura, omoplata, armbar). I actually have pretty flexible wrists and ankles, likely from so many sprains over the years from other sports. So maybe my pain tolerance is a little higher on those joints, or maybe it's because I tend to tap a little slower on those than, say, omoplata, since my shoulders are SUPER tight from many bouts of tendinitis and partial rotator cuff tears from heavy lifting. As such, I tap pretty quickly to anything that starts to wrench them even slightly.
Just my experiences and opinions...
villasenor said:americana