Most lifters are still beginners, Rippetoe Article

[miaou]

Good post, Tosa.

For what it's worth, my own opinion is that SS is definately better for a total Noob; someone who has'nt done any weight training, or who has only used machines. As Tosa points out, SS is hard to fuck up as long as you follow the program to the letter. The downside is the program can get boring as you are basically doing the same workout, with minor variations, every time you hit the gym.

A Noob with slightly more experiance - I consider a Noob to be someone who cannot Bench their own bodyweight and/or Squat 1.5 their bodyweight - can make big gains on 5/3/1. As long as they, or someone they train with, can follow the program correctly; start light, pick the right assistance exercises etc.

The advantage Starting Strength has over 5/3/1 is that it is based on the KISS Principal: Keep It Simple Stupid.

5/3/1 Scores over SS in it's ability to be fine-tuned by the lifter; only the main lifts/rep system is written in stone. Wendler leaves the assistance exercises up to the individual lifter.

In the end, both Mark and Jim have forgotten more about Strength Training than I or the vast majority of Sherdoggers will ever know. One can't go far wrong by following one of their programs.

And what routine are you following this week?

 

[KnightTemplar]

And what routine are you following this week?

That is a vile accuracy, sir! I resemble your remarks!:redface:

 

[miaou]

^ and are you sure your resemble my remarks, instead of, oh I don't know, maybe resenting them?

per se?

 

[Pro Killer]

I think the point with SS vs Other programs is that obviously all programs will work for beginners, They are unadapted and so far away from reaching their athletic potential that to quote Rippetoe "Riding a Bike will increase their 1RM Squat".

So if anything even something like GVT will result in strength gains then what is the point in doing anything but SS where your increasing your strength by the fastest method possible (I.E. Lifting the heaviest weights you've ever lifted every week) instead of starting with something like 5/3/1 that has your working under your capable maxes when you don't even have capable maxes at this stage!!!!

SS is the best program bar none for beginners I think alot of people actually get put off because of it's name it doesnt sound very cool, and because it's repetitive and non flashy,
Also the lifters they will be looking up to won't be using it as linear progression will have stopped for them so noobs want the same to be true for themselves.

In reality your handicapping yourself by doing anything that isn't increasing your lifts 5lbs everyworkout althought whatever you do will yield results!

 

[KnightTemplar]

^ and are you sure your resemble my remarks, instead of, oh I don't know, maybe resenting them?

per se?

I'm say nothing else without my lawyer being present...:icon_chee

 

[miaou]

I'm say nothing else without my lawyer being present...:icon_chee

Good call

 

[Oblivian]

I am experiencing nooblike gains again. I think a lot of it has to do with completely eliminating conditioning work. My body has never had this much rest and all of my previous lifting was done while simultaneously doing hard conditioning/gpp work. My programming is pretty simple too. I don't really think programming is rocket science. Just understand the overload principle, varying rep ranges, and proper rest and you'll be fine. If you are stalling on a lift, IMO it can be solved most of the time by focusing more time on the lift and similar lifts with carryover.

 

[dexbot]

Good post TS, thx.

 

[Origins]

Rip is the man, although I think he falls short on his nutrition advice (in that article especially). There is a maximum cap on the amount of muscle a person (even a teen) can pack on (something like 1/2 a pound a week with a 500 kcal surplus each day). Its up to the trainee to figure out his/her intake in order to support growth.

Anything above that just is stored as fat (put simply), now this isn't necessarily a bad thing, however before the age of 20-22 a developing body increases the number of fat cells as well as their size. This number remains constant after the ages of 20-22 and throughout the rest of adult life, their size fluctuates according to periods of weight-loss. Fat cells can't be removed (save surgically) during a weight-loss phase or "cut", they just reduce in size. Yes fat cells do die (adipose apoptosis) but are replaced (as far as I know).

Thats why childhood obesity predisposes an individual to adult obesity. Yes, I think that eating big to get strong is necessary and this "hawt abz" fad is stupid. But I think it should be done within reason. Being fit for a task and being healthy are two different things.

I'm no expert, nor am I claiming to know more than Rip. I think he's a brilliant coach and educator, but that dosen't put him above being (slightly) wrong.

I probably can't argue the scientific aspect of this particular topic, but I can give you anecdotes. I have been doing SS for 3 months after lifting somewhat properly a month before that. I drank a gallon of whole milk everyday for a month and a half and am still drinking ~half gallon everyday. I have also been eating "fattening" foods like pizza, tacos, burgers, bacon, sausage, and any other high-calorie, protein-filled thing I can shove down my gullet to the point of discomfort everyday. I have gotten anything but fat. I have been doing zero conditioning work during this time except for maybe the game of frisbee or pick-up football or whatever every couple of weeks with friends. I still have visible abs.

Maybe I just have good metabolism. But I would argue that people underestimate the effects of proper strength training on body-fat levels. They also get too caught up on the whole "1/2 a pound a week with a 500 kcal surplus each day; beyond that every single calorie gets stored as fat" thing.

 

[Mumrik]

Rip is always good for a hilarious quote or two:

"Many successful weight-gaining programs have been sabotaged by this bizarre desire to have a six-pack year round. What the hell is the point of having a six-pack if you don't have an ice chest to put it in?"

 

[KnightTemplar]

Anyone know why Rip called his company the Aasgaard Company and uses Norse iconography such as Runes and Thor's war-hammer Mjolnir?

 

[Mumrik]

Because all you non-Scandinavians feel that nordic gods are all cool and macho?

 

[KnightTemplar]

Because all you non-Scandinavians feel that nordic gods are all cool and macho?

Christian: "My God raised the dead, walked on water and died for our Sins!"

Norseman: "Your God is nailed to a Cross. My God has a Hammer."

Anyway, I have some Norse and Germanic DNA mixed in with my Celtic. Which gives me the right to wear a Kilt, play the Bagpipes AND indulge in some recreational rape and pillage(note to self: this is not a legal defence in a Court of Law).

 

[Normot]

Anyone know why Rip called his company the Aasgaard Company and uses Norse iconography such as Runes and Thor's war-hammer Mjolnir?

Three possiblities:
1) He finds Norse stuff cool.
2) He is a Norse Pagan
3) He is a racist (Neo-nazis love Norse things because they feel the Norse where an example of Strong White People).

 

[KnightTemplar]

Three possiblities:
1) He finds Norse stuff cool.
2) He is a Norse Pagan
3) He is a racist (Neo-nazis love Norse things because they feel the Norse where an example of Strong White People).

I could well be wrong, but I suspect anyone who called Rippetoe a Neo-Nazi to his face would wake up in the local ER with a bunch of Doctors examining him and discussing how they were going to remove an Olympic Barbell from his anus...:icon_twis

 

[miaou]

Christian: "My God raised the dead, walked on water and died for our Sins!"

Norseman: "Your God is nailed to a Cross. My God has a Hammer."

Anyway, I have some Norse and Germanic DNA mixed in with my Celtic. Which gives me the right to wear a Kilt, play the Bagpipes AND indulge in some recreational rape and pillage(note to self: this is not a legal defence in a Court of Law).

When comparing christian and norse mythologies, I would like to put forth the following item for your consideration. This is a 4th century BC (that almost 2.5 thousand years ago) depiction of Heracles (aka Hercules):

I think I don't need to make any further comments.

 

[Bounz]

jesus struggled to carry a cross. atleast hercules looks like he did his deadlifts and squats

 

[Origins]

Hercules wasn't Norse...

 

[KnightTemplar]

What an incredible display of artistic skill - especially when one considers the primative tools the sculptor had to work with. The detail of the musculature is breathtaking.

I still say Thor would kick Hercules' ass though!:icon_chee

 

[miaou]

Hercules wasn't Norse...

Really?

My point is that if you are comparing mythologies in terms of "bad-assedness", then greek mythology deserves to be considered. I mean, besides dudes like that one, they had boxing, wrestling and MMA as events in their olympic games (and none of that weight-division bs!).