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Most common attacks from mount

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by gocubs1815, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. gocubs1815

    gocubs1815 Black Belt

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    So I've got a 'problem' with my BJJ game. I suck at armbars. I bring this up because as a white belt rolling I'm struggling at a lot of things, which is a given. But one odd issue I've been having is doing things when I do get to full mount top. I can maintain mount fine, but I feel like I'm stalling myself out when I get there and can't do a lot before the other guy calms down and catches me in a sweep. I don't want rolling to me 4+ minutes of me tryin to keep my balance mounted.

    I percieve that armbar from mount is one of the most common attcks while mounted. But like I said, I suck at it. My instructor taught it to me one day, and just told me to keep repping it on the dummy. But that aside I've gotten little instruction in that dept.

    Here's what I know and can do while mounted so far.
    1. Arm bar - don't get chance with that unless the guy puts up his arm, and even then I'm having a lot of trouble executing the technique (I feel like Damein Maia at UFC 118 all the time. I get it, I kinda do it, but can never finish it)

    2. Americana - had a little success, but the issue there is getting the guy's arm to the mat. Usually I try putting my weight into on arm to free it up, but am just not "strong" enough to get the arm.

    3. Arm Triangle - haven't had much of a chance. My one instructor taught us an unorthodox set up for it, which I rarely can get a chace to attempt. Don't know any 'conventional' set ups for it.

    4. Omaplata - sick move, same unorthodox setup, but there's no way I'm hitting that so soon. (I have vowed though that one day I WILL hit and finish someone with an omaplata in competition.)

    5. Triangle Choke -Had some success with this. Only can get it if I move the mount up high and wait for a chance to get the one leg over the arm. Biggest issue is sinching it up.

    Is there anything else I can do, or recomendations to improve what I already know?
     
  2. Wrestleben

    Wrestleben Brown Belt

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    If the guy reverses you, then you aren't maintaining mount very fine. I like to control the opponents head with shoulder pressure. This forces him to react and you can set up moves based on what he does.

    -If he moves to his side to shrimp, you can move to s-mount and work armbar/chokes.

    -If he moves his arms down, you have his neck and can work an ezekiel fist choke, or cross choke.

    -If he lifts his arm up, you can work an arm triangle or an americana.

    It takes a lot of practice to get get good. The more pressure you put on him, the more chance he will make a mistake. You probably aren't getting armbars because you are telegraphing them. Set them up with other threats, and keep countering and reacting until your opponent makes a mistake.
     
  3. CyberFreq

    CyberFreq Blue Belt

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    1) Ask your instructor.
    2) Cross collar chokes from the mount are money.
    3) Ezekial (PROPER EZEKIALS) chokes are also money in mount (wearing the gi, of course).
    4) Pressure him to turn over (go to S-mount, make him defend chokes, etc) and take his back.
    5) Just continually bug his neck/arms/etc and eventually he will slip up and you need to recognize, capitalize, and take that submission home.
     
  4. metallifan3091

    metallifan3091 Green Belt

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    I'm only a white belt also, so bear that in mind. I'll try to give you a little advice based on my success from mount.

    In my experience, going for and working to perfect the techniques you have listed, especially the armbar, Americana, and arm triangle, is your best bet. There are other things you can do, like the mounted gogoplata and triangle, but they're more difficult techniques with lower % finish rates.

    One thing that I really like to do (and find successfully enough to continue trying) is going from an Americana attempt to an armbar. Lots of guys will try to defend the arm that is being Americana'd by reaching across with their other arm and sort of coming up on one side. When they do this, transition from the Americana to the armbar, attacking the arm that has come across their centerline.

    Like I said, I'm not super experienced, and someone who is better than me could help you a lot more, I'm sure. I just figured I'd give my two cents.

    EDIT: Also, the guy above me has a great point. If you're rolling in the gi, work your gi chokes. A lot of the time, I find that guys will open up an arm or something while trying to defend their neck, especially if you start the choke sneakily and then work it really aggressively once you've started to get your grip. Best of luck.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  5. CyberFreq

    CyberFreq Blue Belt

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    Yurp. First time after I learned a cross-collar choke from mount, I quickly learned to respect and love choking the everlovingshit out of people with pajamas.
     
  6. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Are you talking about gi or no-gi?

    There are tons of different collar chokes you can do in gi but they are gone in no-gi.

    In no-gi you can do an ezekiel choke (you are basically just putting one arm under his neck and then crossing your arms with his neck in the crook of your elbow) but it's low percentage.

    Kimura from mount is possible too

    Arm triangle from mount is great, but you usually have to dismount to finish it. The setups are not that complicated, you just have to be looking for it, if you always try to trap the head and one arm while you have top position you'll start seeing the arm triangle everywhere. Like if you're on his back and you have an underhook, and he turns into you that way to escape, and you turn into him, BAM arm triangle. I just figured that out spontaneously while rolling a few months ago.

    You can also get a few different other types of head and arm chokes from mount, like a D'arce choke or a howdy choke if you drag his arm across with your leg and then immediately crossface him as you're dismounting to side control (I dunno if that made sense)

    Guillotine from mount is also possible, but you have to bait him into sitting up. Like if you try a kimura from mount and he sits up to relieve the pressure you can switch to a guillotine. Or you can grab the chin, let him roll you over as you work his head into your armpit, and finish the guillotine from guard.

    Triangle from mount is money, but it takes some practice to set it up without losing your balance or letting him slip out the back door.

    It's probably most important at this point to work on the armbar from mount (which is the easiest position to finish an armbar from), the americana, the triangle, and the arm triangle.

    For the armbar from mount you really wanna turn the guy up on his side first, so you can get your crotch deep on his tricep. Let him turn on his side to try and escape your mount, and when he does that transition to seated mount with one foot on the mat in front of his chest and your other knee on his back blocking his shoulders so he can't turn back flat on the mat. You're basically kneeling on one knee and sitting on the side of his ribcage at this point. Hook his arm with yours, push his head down, lean forward a little for balance and bring the leg that's kneeling over his head in front of his face and fall back for the armbar.

    Here are some very good tips for armbar from mount as well:

    S-mount Basics + Armbar + Grip Break | Jiu-jitsu Techniques | Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu | Aesopian



    What I tried to explain that these guys don't really bring up is that the more the guy is turned on his side away from you when you're in that s-mount, the better, because his arm is more exposed.

    Sorry if that post was a little bit scatter-brained and tl;dr but hopefully you can get one or two useful things out of it
     
  7. 256

    256 Purple Belt

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    go Aoki and gogo from the top!
     
  8. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    From the shoulder of justice, use your other hand to rape choke him (by making a 'C' with your hand and pushing up into the carotids, not squeezing the trachea with your fingers), using your hip against your elbow to apply the pressure. It's a nice no gi alternative to the cross choke, and if he defends, you can jump your leg over an arm for the triangle.
     
  9. Bruce Calavera

    Bruce Calavera Purple Belt

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    If the traditional americana to arm triangle doesn't work I immediately goto S-mount. From there I either get the armbar(Not the variation in the video) or a mounted triangle.

    I like using the idea that when they defend a submission it should put them further and further into a bad position. As each submission fails I move further up his body until eventually I have a mounted triangle.
     
  10. hughes fan

    hughes fan Silver Belt

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    Sometimes if I know I can't get the arm I just bail and go back to side control or move to north/south.
     
  11. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    The name of the game, in mount, is multiple options. You will always suck at arms bars if you broadcast arm bar and just plow through to arm bar. You have to work in a series of combinations that force the person to defend in one direction and necessarily give up defenses in another area.

    When I'm low on the hips, I attack the neck to get their arms up and then I suck up that space to get a high mount. If they are trying for an elbow escape, I'm stitching to S-mount or perhaps a mounted triangle attempt.

    When they defend chokes, I isolate arms and work a combination choke arm bar option. When they defend arm bars, I may consider rolling them so that I can take the back or try to set up a bow and arrow choke...it's all give and take.
     
  12. winman

    winman White Belt

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  13. Omgplata

    Omgplata White Belt

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    One thing I've been doing lately is I'll go for a two on one and go for an americana and keep your upper body low so they don't have much space. Don't let him trap the same side leg and upa you over since your weight's over on his arm. If you don't get the americana, often times they'll reach through with the other arm to relieve pressure. Then you can nab it and go for an armbar. Or I just meticulously work my mount up higher and higher until I get the chance to trap an arm with my knee and pull the leg over into a mounted triangle. From there I like to try to keep the mount rather than rolling to a triangle from guard because it feels alot more secure.
     
  14. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    if this is in gi, work collar chokes. it doesn't really matter if you get them or not, going for them will force them to defend and when they do they will open up for all sorts of things.

    armbars from the mount are difficult because people expect them and keep their hands close to their chest or on your hips. start messing with their collar and putting pressure on their neck they have no choice but to reach up and defend one way or another. when they do slide your knee up high to prevent them from getting it back. if you keep tight you can go inch by inch from mount to an armbar without giving them much of a chance to escape.

    one thing i like as well is to get and underhook then move to knee on belly and then into a kimura / far side armbar. people might whine that you're giving up position but it works.
     

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