Most accomplished wrestler to cross over in mma

Dirty Holt said:
Dana White and Mike Goldberg both have contracts with the UFC. Are they fighters? Aaron Pico has a contract with Zinkin Management. Is he a fighter? Until you actually compete, you cannot claim to be fighter, or have anyone compare you with guys like Yoel Romero or Cejudo. Makhov has the same credentials in MMA as CM Punk, which are non existant.
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1) Good job quoting only 1/3 of my post because you had no answers to the remaining 2/3.

2) Don't try to act like you didn't understand what I was saying. Dana White isn't a fighter because his contract doesn't say he's a fighter. Makhov, on the other hand, was employed by the UFC as a fighter. Don't act like you didn't know that. You'd make a fool out of yourself.

Now ask yourself: when does one become the president of the UFC? Let's say I sign a contract that says I'm officially the new president of the UFC. Does this contract make me the president? I didn't sign any fighter yet, I didn't fire any fighter yet, I didn't fuck any ring girl yet. Hell, I might even be fired tomorrow before I even had the time to make any decision. But, as for now, if somebody claimed I wasn't the president of the UFC, would he be right or wrong? How can I not be the president of the UFC if my contract says I am? It doesn't make sense.

Let's go back to my first example: if somebody was recruited by a NBA team as a player during the off-season, is he a NBA player? Remember: the new season hasn't started yet and he still has to play one game with the team. Could such a person say "I'm a member the team"? Could he walk around with his NBA jersey without people throwing stones at him? I bet you he could.

In conclusion, Makhov is an UFC fighter because his contract says he is an UFC fighter. By the way, you must become an UFC fighter before your first fight, not after it. If you're not an UFC fighter, you won't be allowed to fight in the UFC in the first place. If having a fight in the UFC was necessary to become an UFC fighter, there would be no UFC fighters. Your perspective isn't just wrong, it defies all logic.

Did I say Bilyal Makhov had the same MMA credentials as Yoel Romero or Henry Cejudo? Did I even say he had any MMA credentials at all? No, I didn't. That's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about the wrestler with the most MMA credentials. We're talking about the wrestler with the most wrestling credentials who has ever come to MMA. Those are two completely different things.

Makhov did exactly that; he came to MMA. He still has to accomplish things in MMA. Maybe he won't even accomplish anything in MMA. But he still came to MMA, whether you like it or not.
 
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StopDucking said:
1)

Let's go back to my first example: if somebody was recruited by a NBA team as a player during the off-season, is he a NBA player? Remember: the new season hasn't started yet and he still has to play one game with the team. Could such a person say "I'm a member the team"? Could he walk around with his NBA jersey without people throwing stones at him? I bet you he could.
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I would say someone who never steps on an NBA court has not had a career in the NBA as a player.
 
What do you mean 'crossed over'? Competed in or was actually good at?

Because if we're talking about just competed in Karelin, Gaber, Kevin Jackson, etc all competed in mma. Jackson even won the ufc 14 middleweight tournament, though he was admittedly a very limited mma fighter.
 
Is the question best use of wrestling in MMA, or best wrestler to have tried MMA? I mean, Kevin Jackson was an Olympic gold medalist, two time world champ. I don't think anyone else with those kinds of pure wrestling creds has competed in MMA. Henry Cejudo or Rulon Gardner you could also put in that mix.

If you're talking use of wrestling in MMA it's harder, because that's changed so much over time. I mean, when Mark Coleman first started doing MMA no one knew what to do with wrestlers, so he'd basically just double leg guys over and over and win like that. But I wouldn't call him the best user of wrestling in MMA just because it wasn't very hard to use wrestling in MMA in those days since so many guys had no idea how to counter it. In the modern era of MMA personally I think GSP probably had the best wrestling for MMA, though I think you could make a case for Demian Maia, Jon Jones, or (depending on how his career goes forward) Khabib. Cormier makes excellent use of his wrestling as well and has throughout his career. But for me it's GSP. No one else was ever as good at taking down high level wrestlers and keeping them down across 5 round fights. Randy was an excellent MMA wrestler, but again because of the era he competed in it's really hard to know where he stacks up all time.
 
selfcritical said:
Also, Randy never accomplished anything of note in freestyle. You're over-stating his "mastery of both" a lot. He did All-American collegiately, but Kos, Askren and Hendricks won multiple championships and div 1, and competed in deeper divisions both in MMA and wrestling.
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Quoting randy . He played around in freestyle . But he sure crossed over well . Randy'so double was sick
 
lts5025 said:
You know Randy didn't grow up doing Greco, right? Oklahoma State doesn't give out Greco scholarships.
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Didn't know that
jack36767 said:
You Clearly love moving the goalposts and your definition of "Freestyle" vs "greco" in mma changes how you need. How much have you actually wrestled?

If you love Randy Couture that's fine. Just try to be more objective and try to understand what you're watching a little better. Because I can't tell if you want the most "accomplished" wrestler in mma or the one who's style you liked best
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As you can tell I'm not well versed on American wrestling but I enjoy the fuck out of it

I've only trained cacc , I'm english.

But from what I've seen randy has showed both well in mma . In wrestling just Greco ?

Coleman hasn't showed Greco , randy has shown both. My point
 
Idonotbelieveit said:
Didn't know that


As you can tell I'm not well versed on American wrestling but I enjoy the fuck out of it

I've only trained cacc , I'm english.

But from what I've seen randy has showed both well in mma . In wrestling just Greco ?

Coleman hasn't showed Greco , randy has shown both. My point
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Randy Couture GREW UP doing American folkstyle.. which is the direct ancestor and closest to catch wrestling.. He wrestled folkstyle at Oklahoma state and did freestyle and Greco as change up to his focus of folkstyle. and became soley focused on greco after graduating college.. as a grown man.

Randy was an awesome fighter and some of his clinch stuff and ground and pound was revolutionary.. but I really don't get this disconnect and how bjj people keep trying to say Randy was only a greco guy
 
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Here are the real answers we're all looking for.

Most accomplished wrestler to compete in MMA - Rulon Gardner, Henry Cejudo, Mark Schultz, Kenny Monday, Kevin Jackson, István Majoros, and Karam Ibrahim are all World or Olympic Gold Medalists who entered MMA in some capacity with varying success (I don't count Karelin because I don't consider his fight to be legitimate). Of that list, I give the nod to Schultz.
Wrestler who accomplished the most in MMA - Jon Jones and it's not a contest
 
Mark Schultz gets a mention. Olympic gold medalist, 2x world gold medalist, and 3x NCAA champion.
 
jack36767 said:
Randy Couture GREW UP doing American folkstyle.. which is the direct ancestor and closest to catch wrestling.. He wrestled folkstyle at Oklahoma state and did freestyle and Greco as change up to his focus of folkstyle. and became soley focused on greco after graduating college.. as a grown man.

Randy was an awesome fighter and some of his clinch stuff and ground and pound was revolutionary.. but I really don't get this disconnect and how bjj people keep trying to say Randy was only a greco guy
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I thought randy was just Greco a while ago.
Shows what a beast he was, he did well with that in competition. And his quote he only played around with freestyle. Greco was his main

I thought Severn was just Greco, but got owned by a few people. Severn was more accomplished in freestlye than Greco

Severn really is the most accomplished wrestler in Greco freestyle,
In MMA

I wish us English had wrestling in school
 
Te Huna Matata said:
Here are the real answers we're all looking for.

Most accomplished wrestler to compete in MMA - Rulon Gardner, Henry Cejudo, Mark Schultz, Kenny Monday, Kevin Jackson, István Majoros, and Karam Ibrahim are all World or Olympic Gold Medalists who entered MMA in some capacity with varying
success (I don't count Karelin because I don't consider his fight to be legitimate). Of that list, I give the nod to Schultz.
Wrestler who accomplished the most in MMA - Jon Jones and it's not a contest
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Randy accomplished more than Jones

Randy has him beat in MMA and wrestling
 
Te Huna Matata said:
lol, fuck off.
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Randy is two time Lhw champ and 3 time HW champ and think HW tourney winner

Wrestling randy owns him it's not even close.

On paper randy wins.


It's like comparing tito to van arsedale

Jones MMA wrestling is sick, I loved his fight vs bonner

Fact in both, if you can show facts that Jones accomplished more than randy in both please do
 
Idonotbelieveit said:
I thought randy was just Greco a while ago.
Shows what a beast he was, he did well with that in competition. And his quote he only played around with freestyle. Greco was his main

I thought Severn was just Greco, but got owned by a few people. Severn was more accomplished in freestlye than Greco

Severn really is the most accomplished wrestler in Greco freestyle,
In MMA

I wish us English had wrestling in school
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Way to miss most of the point
 
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