More. More Power.

[ninjajesus]

So you are saying that all differences in athletes are determined by training regime, diet, attitude, and training?

More than that. There's hundreds of factors that go ignored, because people want to be lazy and automatically attribute it to genes.
Well show me the differences in the genes of a successful athlete and a non-successful one.
Which genes contribute to the difference?
Do you even know, or are you blindly following what other people say?

 

[Donut62]

More than that. There's hundreds of factors that go ignored, because people want to be lazy and automatically attribute it to genes.
Well show me the differences in the genes of a successful athlete and a non-successful one.
Which genes contribute to the difference?

Well I agree that people use it as a cop out, I think empirically it's impossible to deny that there are inherent differences in the genetic make up many top athletes that gives them an edge over the average person. I'm not biologically minded in a way to a argue a point scientifically, so I won't jump into water that I can't touch the bottom in. I always give the example in lifting of Andy Bolton, who deadlifted 600 pounds the first time someone took him to a gym. Only a half dozen people on this forum have reached that mark with many years of training under their belt.

 

[Cmart]

Ninja, sprinting is where you can really see the difference in people's genetic abilities. It's been shown to be true that some people are faster than others, and the improvement from training will not make you the fastest man on the planet if someone else is genetically predisposed to be faster.

You can see it in baseball pitchers that can throw really fast, high jumpers, long distance runners - there are people that are really genetically suited for their sport, and you see it evidenced in sports that don't account for much beyond simple ability (vs. skill).

If you don't understand this, you should research it, not criticize it out of your lack of understanding.

 

[Cmart]

Well I agree that people use it as a cop out, I think empirically it's impossible to deny that there are inherent differences in the genetic make up many top athletes that gives them an edge over the average person. I'm not biologically minded in a way to a argue a point scientifically, so I won't jump into water that I can't touch the bottom in. I always give the example in lifting of Andy Bolton, who deadlifted 600 pounds the first time someone took him to a gym. Only a half dozen people on this forum have reached that mark with many years of training under their belt.

Good point - and strength training is at the far end of the spectrum from, for example, sprinting - an untrained lifter can make extremely dramatic gains in strength. Not so much with sprinting, throwing, jumping... there are gains to be made, for sure, or people wouldn't train. But like I said, with some work I could put 50% on my bench, but not 50% on my sprinting speed.

 

[ninjajesus]

I always give the example in lifting of Andy Bolton, who deadlifted 600 pounds the first time someone took him to a gym. Only a half dozen people on this forum have reached that mark with many years of training under their belt.

Gyms aren't the only medium of gaining strength. It's not like he was a computer nerd and decided to start lifting and figured out he could start off with 600 pounds.

Ninja, sprinting is where you can really see the difference in people's genetic abilities. It's been shown to be true that some people are faster than others, and the improvement from training will not make you the fastest man on the planet if someone else is genetically predisposed to be faster.

You can take 2 people, have them race, and one person will probably be faster than the other.
The two people aren't clones in every way, so everything in their lives leading up to that point could have an affect on how fast they run, and no two people have the exact same lives.
What makes the fastest man in the world the fastest man in the world? Genetics? What genes? Do you know their names? Do you know how the genes make them faster?

You can see it in baseball pitchers that can throw really fast, high jumpers, long distance runners - there are people that are really genetically suited for their sport, and you see it evidenced in sports that don't account for much beyond simple ability (vs. skill).

There's always someone who is the best at anything, regardless if it's something that requires speed. There has to be a best. Even if the best is shitty, we wouldn't know, because they're the best.
Skill is aquired through experience. Anything someone does, it's a skill, not a god given ability. They learned how to do it. Their body adapted to be able to do it well. The body just doesn't randomly adapt to things and you get lucky and find out what it is.

If you don't understand this, you should research it, not criticize it out of your lack of understanding.

I understand it completely, I just don't agree with it.
Even if there are genes that help them be fast, doesn't mean that it's anywhere NEAR 90%. If that were true, someone with the genes would always be faster than someone without them, no matter how hard the non-gene guy trains. All while the gene guy sits on the couch.

Good point - and strength training is at the far end of the spectrum from, for example, sprinting - an untrained lifter can make extremely dramatic gains in strength. Not so much with sprinting, throwing, jumping... there are gains to be made, for sure, or people wouldn't train. But like I said, with some work I could put 50% on my bench, but not 50% on my sprinting speed.

That's comparing apples and oranges. That has nothing to do with genetics, it just means there isn't that much to improve. I can run a 40 yard dash in about 5 seconds. You can only reduce that time by so much. I could never reduce it by 50%.
You could have all the genes in the world, but you're never gonna be able to run a 40 yard dash in 2.5 seconds.

 

[takeahnase]

You can train to be faster, otherwise speed athletes would be sitting around all day drinking beer instead of training. You won't double your speed as you can double your squat - but as you probably currently don't run a 20 second 100m you don't need sherdog.net to give you that insight. Just because some guy with no training at all can run a 11 second 100m doesn't mean that training to be faster is useless. In particular if you perceive to have a speed deficit relative to others, it is likely that training specifically for speed will yield improvements. Find a track and field coach and read Explosive Running by Michael Yessis.

Barut: Love you too :redface:

 

[Barut]

No problem.

 

[Cmart]

I'm getting tired of your ignorance and bullheadedness, ninja. I guess at this point I have to ask whether you've studied athletic performance and training and/or kinesiology , and whether you've ever competed at the collegiate level or higher in sprinting and/or in a powerlifting or other strength contest.

 

[Lorenz]

I'm getting tired of your ignorance and bullheadedness, ninja. I guess at this point I have to ask whether you've studied athletic performance and training and/or kinesiology , and whether you've ever competed at the collegiate level or higher in sprinting and/or in a powerlifting or other strength contest.

He just started a preety ignorant argument in the Fav. Idiot's in the Gym Thread aswell, so dont take it personally. I assume its his time of the month, or possibly he has just been biding his time for one big day of Trolliness.

 

[ChaseT.]

ninjajesus would bitch slap you two for talking shit like that, but it might hurt his soft hands.

 

[Cmart]

He just started a preety ignorant argument in the Fav. Idiot's in the Gym Thread aswell, so dont take it personally. I assume its his time of the month, or possibly he has just been biding his time for one big day of Trolliness.

I figured as much.

Anywho, I've never played rugby. I have played football. I only have an idea how much it helps to have sprinter speed and incredible lateral movement in rugby, because I can see from having watched it. If it's of prime importance to have fantastic sprinting speed and you don't have it, chances are you're not going to have it no matter how much you train - that's simple fact. You are limited my what you bring to the table genetically.

If it helps your game to gain 20% on your bodyweight while keeping the same bodyfat percentage, and adding 25-50% to your overall strength, well then we're talking. That's what applies directly to the thread starter.

As far as the side debate here of whether genetics is a determining or limiting factor in athletic performance, anyone who thinks it isn't is ignorant and/or a moron. It's not a theory and it's not some kind of pessimism that can be countered with "don't let people tell you that you have limits" hooyah bullcrap. It's fact. Read a little and bring something to the discussion rather than uninformed criticism. It embarrasses us all.

 

[Cmart]

ninjajesus would bitch slap you two for talking shit like that, but it might hurt his soft hands.

Speaking of soft hands, what are your athletic credentials? Ever done anything more strenuous than keyboarding while eating cheetos?

 

[ChaseT.]

Speaking of soft hands, what are your athletic credentials? Ever done anything more strenuous than keyboarding while eating cheetos?

That's just silly. If you eat cheetos while keyboarding, your keyboard will turn orange. Noob.

 

[Barut]

CMart, Chase is a pretty decent am-powerlifter.

 

[ninjajesus]

I'm getting tired of your ignorance and bullheadedness, ninja. I guess at this point I have to ask whether you've studied athletic performance and training and/or kinesiology

Don't get hostile with me. Either argue the points or don't.
Since you're so learned in it, tell me which genes affect sprinting speed and how they affect it.
If you don't know, just say it. Don't start with the fallacious reasoning.

He just started a preety ignorant argument in the Fav. Idiot's in the Gym Thread aswell, so dont take it personally. I assume its his time of the month, or possibly he has just been biding his time for one big day of Trolliness.

My argument is that just because an exercise isn't what they do to achieve their goals, doesn't mean it's useless.
You want to argue that, or are you just here to talk shit?
I see your plan is to call my argument ignorant, and then run away like a coward. You have no counter-argument.

ninjajesus would bitch slap you two for talking shit like that, but it might hurt his soft hands.

And having rough hands is no way to treat your boyfriend's cock.

As far as the side debate here of whether genetics is a determining or limiting factor in athletic performance, anyone who thinks it isn't is ignorant and/or a moron.

Yes, because if you repeat it enough, with no proof, it suddenly becomes fact. Right?

All I asked for was some proof, and since you can't provide it, I assume that means it either doesn't exist, or you're taking the word of somebody else without having any knowledge of genetics yourself.
It's easier to just state the facts than it is to dance around it and call people names, like you're doing right now.

 

[Henry Swanson]

Don't get hostile with me. Either argue the points or don't.
Since you're so learned in it, tell me which genes affect sprinting speed and how they affect it.
If you don't know, just say it. Don't start with the fallacious reasoning.

Aren't some people just born with a greater ratio of fast twitch : slow twitch muscle fibers? And wouldn't that make them potentially faster and stronger than someone who has more of a 50/50 ratio, granted they train of course?

 

[ninjajesus]

Aren't some people just born with a greater ratio of fast twitch : slow twitch muscle fibers? And wouldn't that make them potentially faster and stronger than someone who has more of a 50/50 ratio, granted they train of course?

Some guy on the last page said there was a study on an olympian and they were 50/50. But I take that with a grain of salt.

Now that it seems like you want to debate this maturely, I'll ask a question of you: how do you know they were BORN with the greater ratio of fast twitch muscles? If you test an athlete in the olympics, obviously it's going to be different.

 

[Merrill]

CMart, Chase is a pretty decent am-powerlifter.

Chase is teh sexy in a singlet. Or so I heard.

 

[ChaseT.]

Do we know whether ninjajesus was BORN with soft hands? Could they be the result of years of lotion and never touching icky barbells?

 

[Henry Swanson]

Some guy on the last page said there was a study on an olympian and they were 50/50. But I take that with a grain of salt.

Now that it seems like you want to debate this maturely, I'll ask a question of you: how do you know they were BORN with the greater ratio of fast twitch muscles? If you test an athlete in the olympics, obviously it's going to be different.

I'm just chiming in here and don't want it to seem like I'm trying to join the mob against you here. Fact is, I DON'T know if they're born like that. All I know is, and this is purely anecdotal, I've had friends who were the laziest guys you'd ever meet, no jobs, sit on the couch all day and still could display amazing levels of strength, power and speed during the odd time they decided to exert themselves. Again, no actual scientific proof whatsoever, but I gotta imagine they were born with SOMETHING that others aren't.

If we can all agree that no two people are alike, to an extent, why is it so hard to believe that some people are born with a genetic predisposition towards strength, speed, power etc.?